Art of City Building 2020 - Session 1: Justice, durabilité et villes résilientes au climat

Dans le cadre de la conférence Art of City Building 2020, nous avons invité le maire Mike Savage, Tara Wickwire, Alex Bozicovic, Katherine Peinhardt, Jeff Goodell, Julian Agyeman et Tamika Butler à discuter de la justice, de la durabilité et des villes résilientes au climat.

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Un résumé des idées, des thèmes et des citations les plus convaincants de cette conversation franche

1. Adaptation shouldn’t come at the expense of accessibility

Katherine Peinhardt argues that when it comes to adapting to a changing climate, adaptation cannot come at the expense of accessibility. Giving the example of rain gutters or steps that can make public space inaccessible for some members of the community, she says, “if it doesn’t work well for everyone, it doesn’t work. A resilient public space is first and foremost a public space.”

2. A new world is upon us—which direction will we choose?

Jeff Goodell presents the sobering reality that even if we outlaw fossil fuels and go to zero carbon emissions tomorrow, sea levels would still continue to rise for decades to come. However, he argues, we are in a moment of transformation, where a new world is possible. “In the coming years, we’re going to reinvent where and how we live. We can build a fairer, more just world. Or not. It’s up to us.” He proposes a series of big questions that we must tackle ahead: Will we get serious about cutting carbon? When does the real estate market collide with climate science? Where will the money for adaptation come from? How quickly will we stop building walls and learn to live with water? Who decides who, and what, will be saved?

3. Sustainability is more than green

Julian Agyeman speaks about the equity deficit in conversations about sustainability. Going forward, we need planning at both the human and humane scales—addressing urban equality, equity, and human dignity at the same time as climate objectives. Says Agyeman, “Sustainability cannot only be a green or environmental concept. True sustainability is achieved when social need, welfare, and economic opportunity are integrated into living within the environment’s limits.”

4. Your race impacts your quality of life

Using the example of Los Angeles, where she lives, Tamika Butler points out that the race you are born into is more determinant of your outcomes than any other factor. This plays out geographically as well. South Los Angeles is made up of predominantly Black and Latinx communities, while West Los Angeles is predominantly white. Giving the examples of migrant workers and frontline workers, she says, “If the climate is going to drastically change everything we do, how just and how sustainable will that change be if we determine some are worth saving, and some are worth helping others to be saved?”

5. Co-produced futures are the only way forward

In the ensuing moderated conversation, the presenters agreed that we need to move from models of allyship to models of accomplices. We need urban planning and urban design professions with practitioners that look like and come from the communities they are designing for; people who are both culturally competent, and culturally humble. Changing the future starts with changing who’s doing the work.

Panneau complet

Note aux lecteurs: Cette session vidéo a été transcrite à l'aide d'un logiciel de transcription automatique. L'édition manuelle a été entreprise dans le but d'améliorer la lisibilité et la clarté. Les questions ou préoccupations concernant la transcription peuvent être adressées à avec «transcription» dans la ligne d'objet.

Maire Mike Savage [00:00:00] Good morning. Welcome to the fourth annual Art of City Building Conference. My name is Mike Savage, I’m the mayor of the great city of Halifax. Whether you’re turning in from Halifax or points beyond. I hope you enjoyed this opportunity to engage with so many others. We’re working to make our cities more livable, sustainable and welcoming to diverse populations. Allow me to start off by acknowledging that this conference takes place annually on the ancestral and the unseeded lands of the Mi’kmaw People.


Maire Mike Savage [00:00:30] We are all beneficiaries of the peace and friendship treaties with the indigenous people of this land. I want to thank the organizers. Folks like Tara Wickwire, Kourosh Rad, Jen Angel and the support of presenting sponsorships: Develop Nova Scotia, the Halifax Partnership, Downtown Halifax Business Commission and the Port of Halifax. It is indeed gratifying to see these important conversations in our community. I certainly hope that next year we will get back to meeting in person. Given the theme of this year’s conference ‘Under Water’, it should come as little surprise, I suppose, that we in Halifax find ourselves once again anxiously watching a hurricane to our south.

Putting away the patio furniture and securing our properties has become an unwelcome September ritual. But no city, no community is immune from the threats posed by climate change. And Halifax, where we have long drawn our fortunes from the sea, we see more storms move up the eastern seaboard, maintaining strength, where previously they didn’t over Atlantic waters because they’re warmer than they used to be. In September of ’03, Hurricane Juan made landfall in our community as a Cat-two storm, forcing coastal evacuation, toppling massive trees along city streets, peeling back roofs, sinking sailboats, knocking out power for up to two weeks. Last year, it was hurricane Dorian. Not as concentrated in Halifax, but wreaking havoc throughout our province. Climate change is real. It is happening now. And it demands a real response. I’m proud that in Halifax, we were among the first cities in Canada to declare a climate emergency, in January of 2019. We followed that declaration with a strong endorsement of the city’s climate action plan.

HalifACT 2050. This spring, in the midst of our response to Covid. In the face of a pandemic and the dual crises of Black Lives Matter, it would have been tempting to push climate change response to the backburner. But to wait is to potentially put the goals of the strategy out of reach. HalifACT charts our journey to net zero emissions by 2050, but requires urgent and transformational action in the next 10 years. To that end, we’re ramping up our efforts by setting a target of net zero municipal operations by 2030. To get there, decarbonizing transportation will play a big role and H.R.M. has a target to electrify our fleet, including our ferries by 2030. You’ll hear more about this later on when I joined this afternoon for a conversation with my friend Mary Rowe from the Canadian Urban Institute. Across the country and around the world, cities have demonstrated that they can move beyond the traditional role of environmental stewards, with wastewater, solid waste management and public transit to become leaders. We can shape our cities to be the leaders in the climate change adaptation, to invest in renewable energy, to become places that are quick to trial and to adopt new technologies. Between now and when I come back to join the panel with the always understated Mary Rowe. I will be meeting with the Nova Scotia Nature Trust and announcing the work that they’ve done, including a major civic contribution to the Blue Mountain Birch Cove Wilderness Area to keep that pristine for generations and generations to come. That is also city building. I’m grateful to many of you are out there willing to lend your ideas, your creativity and your skills to making these goals come about. Thank you very much, merci beaucoup, wela’lioq, and enjoy the conference. I’ll see you later.


Tara Wickwire [00:04:26] Good morning everyone, and welcome to the Art of City Building. Thank you, Mayor Savage, for opening our event. My name is Tara Wickwire, and it gives me great pleasure to welcome everyone on behalf of my fellow committee members, Jennifer Angel, T.J. Maguire, Kourosh Rad and Paul MacKinnon. Halifax is a city that lives at the intersection where the land meets the sea. Our history is a maritime history and much as of our economy is tied to the ocean. Visitors are drawn to our sea coasts and our residents never want to leave it. We are at another intersection where the opportunity for change is before us. A global pandemic crisis, an economic crisis, a crisis of inequity and social injustice, including the state of emergency declared by the Mi’kmaw Chiefs. We are all treaty people. A climate crisis, including more powerful and frequent hurricanes and tropical storms like the one arriving tomorrow. And possibly a crisis of existential fear and powerlessness in the face of these wicked problems. Or we can harness this disruption for good. These significant challenges necessitate new thinking and bold action. They, if anything, are the mother of all invention. The old paradigm for how we build our city no longer feels relevant, or at least sufficient to meet the challenges and opportunities before us for transformation. It is in this context that open, respectful and inventive dialog has never been more urgent. The Art of City Building brings us together thought leaders and disrupters from around the globe to challenge us and to inspire us to think about Halifax and ourselves in new ways. And it’s wonderful what we’re seeing in the chat, participants from around the world, Mumbai, London, Italy, and, of course, all across North America. So wonderful. I want to thank our partners for supporting these conversations. Develop Nova Scotia. The Canadian Urban Institute, Placemaking X, Province of Nova Scotia, the Downtown Halifax Business Commission, Urban Capital, Halifax Partnership, Turner Drake, Halifax Port Authority, Halifax Stanfield International Airport, National Public Relations, RAD Consulting, FBM, and Andy Fillmore. So I’ll now hand it over to Alex Bozicovic, who is Architecture Critic for the Globe and Mail and we are thrilled to have him lead our first session. Alex.


Alex Bozicovic [00:06:47] Thanks Tara. Hi everybody.


Alex Bozicovic [00:06:50] It really is my pleasure to be here with a really distinguished panel at a time when all of the questions we’re talking about today really couldn’t be more relevant. I sit here in Toronto, which is very far from the ocean and very far from California as well. And yet this is a city in a region that is experiencing sea level rise in the form of the rising waters of Lake Ontario.


Alex Bozicovic [00:07:16] And the best part of my favorite park in this city right now has been partially washed away and out of commission for the past couple of years. For that reason last week, you know during the wilds the height of the wildfires, you know, the weather here was strange in a way that can only be explained by high level haze coming from the West Coast. What seems to be happening thousands of kilometers away winds up affecting us directly in ways that we might not expect. That of course, is also true in the realm of politics. And when we talk about this today, this conversation, we talk about sustainability and we talk about equity. You know, we’ve learned in the past six months or eight months that these things are very closely linked. So, as I say, I’m very happy to be part of this discussion and to hear our speakers today. First up is going to be Katherine Peinhardt. So she is a German Chancellor Fellow at the German Development Institute studying urban resilience research and hope talk is going to build on that research. And she’s going to talk to us about how to integrate social resilience, which I think is a very important idea that maybe isn’t familiar to a lot of us, but will become more familiar. Social resilience and incorporate that into the conversation about climate adaptation. So if Katherine is ready, maybe we can invite her to begin. Katherine.


Katherine Peinhardt [00:08:44] Hello and good afternoon from Bonn, Germany. I’m going to share my screen here very quickly. All right. So I’m Katherine Peinhardt. I am a German Chancellor Fellow with the Alexander von Humbolt Stiftung here in Germany and I’m hosted by the German Development Institute here in Bonn. And I’d like to talk today about something that I think can be a really big opportunity for our cities in an era of climate breakdown, which is how public spaces can make our communities both physically and socially resilient to the impacts of the climate crisis. My background is in climate change.

More specifically, how it impacts people and policy. So a few years ago, when I started a new job at a nonprofit called Project for Public Spaces, it was a bit of a change for me to go from working on urban sustainability to doing things like writing about the way our parks and our streets work. The transition was one that would make me think pretty differently about the way people live in and move through their communities. I learned something about something called Placemaking, which promotes the concept of community led decisions about the public realm. And suddenly I got really frustrated at public spaces everywhere I went. Parks that weren’t accessible or clearly didn’t serve the communities that needed them the most. And my eyes were pretty quickly open to the ways that depending on how they’re managed, used or built, our parks and our streets can either support us in confronting shared problems like climate change or worsen them.

Placemaking as a process draws on community wisdom. Applying that type of thinking to adaptation is what will help us to make sure our strategies work well for everybody.


Katherine Peinhardt [00:10:27] The first thing I realized when I started my research here in Germany though, was that I needed to know what exactly it is I’m looking for when I look for resilience in public spaces. It feels sort of like resilience has become a bit of a buzzword in recent years to the point where I think it’s lost some of its meaning. I can understand why that’s happened, though. It’s not a simple topic. And people come at the concept from all different angles. Myself included.


Katherine Peinhardt [00:10:54] Some folks define urban resilience as the ability to absorb shocks and recover functions. And if this type of definition that dictates much of the way that we approach shared problems like climate hazards, you can see it in the way that we design our disaster recovery plans, our adaptation strategies and all sorts of policies that are supposed to make us better prepared to weather either metaphorical or literal storm.

Under this definition, we often lean on big plans like seawalls to buffer or prevent the impacts of climate hazards. This often means that urban and community resilience is in practice focused on the physical or technological features that are layered into our urban form. And it’s easy to see why they’re the most obvious parts of our cities. The visible features of our streets, parks and plazas that we see either as vulnerable or fortifying.


Katherine Peinhardt [00:11:44] We know a whole lot about gray infrastructure like seawalls, blue infrastructure like polters or permeable paving and green infrastructure like rain gardens. But urban resilience in practice often ignores the human experience and human well-being element beyond physical protection or recovery from climate hazards. It ignores the role of social networks and the power of having socially connected places. And I think that’s part of why public spaces are often overlooked as opportunities for building resilience to climate change. When cities write their various strategies, parks and streets are often left out.


Katherine Peinhardt [00:12:19] So what comes next? I think it’s a leap from the traditional prevent and predict paradigm of climate adaptation that focuses on physical structures, one that also incorporates and draws on the strength of human interaction.


Katherine Peinhardt [00:12:34] So what’s going to be helpful is to layer in this concept right here, which is social resilience. It’s seen pretty, very definitions within the existing literature. But most simply, you could outline it as the capacity to respond to a given change. And it also includes things like persistability, adaptability, transformability. It’s supported by three interlinked concepts. The first being social cohesion, which is demonstrated through cooperation and collaboration of all types and comes as a result of the accumulation of social capital. Social capital is the resulting value of that cooperation, and that social capital is often formed with the support of social infrastructure, which is where public spaces come in.


Katherine Peinhardt [00:13:19] [00:13:19]So why can’t we do both, combine physical resilience features with efforts at enhancing social resilience through public space? I think now is the time for us to incorporate the human element into our resilience paradigms and to see it as a resource in our collaborative adaptation to the climate crisis. [16.4s]


Katherine Peinhardt [00:13:38] Now, urban climate adaptation is new as a formalized community of practice, because it’s new in this way, it’s lacking a lot of norms and standards so far. This means that this is an opportunity for us to shape it and work for the inclusion of things like public spaces. There are some cities that are doing this already incorporating public spaces and placemaking into the way that they adapt, Rotterdam is one of those cities. And I’ve been studying their approach to climate adaptation for the last 10 months and trying to find the best practices for public spaces to enhance both physical and social resilience at the same time. In Rotterdam, a concept called a water square has been made into official policy under their ‘Water Plan 2’, which was written back in 2007.


Katherine Peinhardt [00:14:22] Now what is a water square? The concept was developed by local architects at ‘De Urbanisten’, and it consists of a public space that serves a second function as a stormwater management feature designed to flood and collect water on days of heavy rain. Waterplein Benthemplein here is just one of such water squares.

The Benthemplein Water Square has three large basins and a series of gutters and drainage features embedded into the plaza. But beyond collecting rainwater, it’s designed for multiple social uses. So basin one on the left is designed for skateboarding. Basin two on the right serves the surrounding schools, fitness centers and churches as a gathering space, and basin three in the center is designed with lots of seating and a place to play basketball.


Katherine Peinhardt [00:15:09] This summer and early fall, I studied the square and sat there for hours to observe not only how the space looks and functions physically, but also how it performs on a social scale. Using public space observation techniques I learned during my time at Project for Public Spaces, I watched how people moved through the space, whether they stop and linger or just pass through. I watched how different age groups navigated the park and spoke to the folks who designed the square, as well as those who clean and maintain on a daily basis as an experiment in combining place with resilience. I think it offers a lot of lessons. The first would be: [00:15:46]Don’t let climate proofing features make a space inaccessible. As in any public space, if it doesn’t work well for everyone, it doesn’t work. Period. [7.6s]


Katherine Peinhardt [00:15:56] Sometimes physical features like rain gutters or steps can make access difficult for differently abled people. Here where I’ve marked with a black arrow, you can see that the benches are a little bit below the pavement on the left hand side. And these benches are heavily used by students. But the gutter feature is bridged by a step that creates a barrier for anyone using a wheelchair or crutches. Some of the other spaces in the water square can also only be reached by steps. And while the steps are part of what make the square ideal for rainwater collection, they can be limiting for folks with mobility challenges. [00:16:29]A resilient public space is still, first and foremost a public space. It’s making sure that foundational values, like accessibility for people of all ages and abilities, are kept in mind. [9.0s] It’s a pretty important starting point.


Katherine Peinhardt [00:16:43] Next, I’d say that public spaces only perform at their best when they’re attractive and fun. If it isn’t exciting or have something to offer, it’s probably not going to help people to form the kinds of bonds necessary for social cohesion. To have relaxing or exciting uses of a public space like this stormwater base in the fall, so design for skateboarding means that people are more likely to visit, gather with their friends, meet their neighbors, and have a sense of attachment and trust assigned to that place to create a playful and engaging way for people to experience climate adaptation in action. It’s also a pretty powerful exercise in building climate awareness and engagement with the issue.


Katherine Peinhardt [00:17:22] Public spaces that are designed with special resilience features also often require special management plans to stay up and running and to continue functioning as socially vibrant places. To that end, Waterplein Benthemplein has got a different cleaning schedule than other squares in Rotterdam, and maintenance teams who work there have adapted their techniques and tools to fit the square and its technical specifications. Here, the small sized swiper machine sprays and sweeps up garbage in the space. But the vehicle isn’t designed to go into the basins, which then need manual cleaning instead. And those areas, different equipment is used like vacuums and blowers for leaves and debris. A deeper cleaning also happens a few times a year to maintain the pipes and sewer connections in the square. It’s also important in management to be flexible, adapting to new climate risks that might become more apparent over time and having a plan for when hazards like heavy rain do pop up.

Knowing how the basins empty and having trained staff ready to maintain special features is the key to long term success. A learning oriented and evolving approach is also a surefire sign of a project that cultivates social resilience.


Katherine Peinhardt [00:18:35] Because the Waterplein Benthemplein is such an innovative and agenda setting pilot project it is a prime opportunity for an adaptive learning process on a city wide scale. It follows that a lot of things have changed in the square over time. The learning process can be seen in seemingly simple things like the placement of garbage cans, which at first were placed in spots not so easily access from the basins.

Members of the cleaning team saw this to be a part of the problem they faced where they had lots of visitors littering. And at first, maintenance staff weren’t allowed to move the bins. But over time, this design rule was relaxed with the knowledge that it might help to keep the space cleaner and make it easier to keep up from day to day.


Katherine Peinhardt [00:19:17] On an even broader scale, the city has continued to learn from the square since its construction. This particular water square has a lot of mechanical features, for example, to pump collected rainwater. But now plans for new water squares are different. With fewer of those features and more reliance on gravity to move captured water.


Katherine Peinhardt [00:19:36] Next, it’s important to keep a comprehensive view all the climate hazards based in a given place. It’s easy to miss less visible issues like heat stress or access to shade. But many cities around the world are seeing the increasing urgency of confronting these issues, which often affect communities pretty unevenly and reflect longstanding equity issues in our urban form. As for the water square, its design was almost entirely based on water management priorities and risks like heat were not a particular area of focus, but now heat is coming to be a larger part of the city’s adaptation plans. Rotterdam is currently working on a heat plan, which is championed by the Public Health Department, but heavily involves folks from the city management team who work on climate adaptation strategy. This is a pretty powerful example of a multi risk approach to climate adaptation and of collaborating across departments and teams to integrate adaptation goals. On that note, Rotterdam does a really good job of making its goals crosscutting. Resilience and Rotterdam interfaces with many other city wide goals to start because Rotterdam faces so many water related risks, climate adaptation initiatives in Rotterdam are housed within the water department. But beyond that, Rotterdam’s resilience and adaptation goals intersect with goals that have to do with tourism, attraction and talent, greening and beautification. And now even COVID recovery. Earlier this year, a set of seven public space projects aimed at greening and COVID sensitive social distancing adjustments were announced, along with two hundred thirty three million euros worth of funding through their [00:21:12](inaudible) [0.0s] program. So nesting resilience goals with other city priorities is a powerful way to make adaptation more mainstream and city operations and planning.


Katherine Peinhardt [00:21:24] True placemaking, as noted by experts like Fred Kent, draws out the expertize that the community already has. This means checking in before, during and after a project is implemented in the public realm. Many of the members of the city management department noted how differently Rotterdam residents experience water issues and climate hazards. Some people faced subsidence and issues with the wooden structures under their homes, while others see their streets flooded. Tuning into localized concerns can be really important information to incorporate into the design or management of a public space. Designers of the Waterplein Benthemplein conducted a series of workshops that included the surrounding institutions like the school and the theater and the church, and also engaged with other members of municipal departments like Public Works. Overall, what I find to be the most important thing in climate sensitive public spaces is to avoid just filling in the gaps on a preconceived design. Instead, getting in touch with the community’s vision from the start and having that inform the design. When I spoke to a group of young skateboarders, they told me they really liked the square but really wished that they had more skate features to grind on and were annoyed by things like broken glass and garbage in the space. This is the type of feedback that needs to be continuously sought out time and again.


Katherine Peinhardt [00:22:42] So how has Rotterdam learned from projects like this? Has it had an impact on their climate adaptation policies? At the municipal level, community engagement is evolving pretty fast. A lot has happened since the square was finished almost 10 years ago. Rotterdam Weatherwise. The latest local strategy for climate adaptation incorporates public spaces into climate adaptation and resilience building policy. It exhibits a much more community oriented approach than previous adaptation strategies and engages with experts and locals in multiple ways. Preliminary questionnaires, outreach to expert networks and entrepreneurs, and conversations called brisk dialogs that happen at the community level. There’s also a new neighborhood approach being developed, which is changing the way Rotterdam listens to its residents when it comes to climate change. While this doesn’t specifically apply to the water square I’ve shown you today. I still want to dig into the neighborhood approach, part of Rotterdam’s Weatherwise plan, which is being tested in two different neighborhoods. The approach is based on two scans of neighborhoods, one being physical and one social that inform the type of outreach and small projects that can be implemented in a given area based on existing structures and social landscape. This approach includes climate talks, which are based on climate risk maps for specific areas of Rotterdam and are used to start outreach conversations that both spread awareness of and gain context around locals lived experiences of climate hazards. It also includes small projects like neighborhood gardens and nearly always incorporates awareness, building and communications into any on the ground adaptation work. Much like placemaking the neighborhood approach aims to make use of existing knowledge and assets in a given neighborhood. The strategy is still under continuous development by members of the [00:24:35](inaudible) [0.0s] Department, where team members note that the approach is never finished, rather evolving over time to mirror the neighborhoods it’s intended to serve.


Katherine Peinhardt [00:24:45] My last tip would be to partner up and to put up the funding to match. Part of the Weatherwise approach I just mentioned incorporates partnerships with local nonprofits, which is a great idea because nonprofits can often get projects off the ground really quickly. The municipality is partnering with organizations like ‘Opzoomer Mee’, which is a really well-known nonprofit that does all sorts of grassroots led work in Rotterdam, primarily street level placemaking and greening projects, but also education, outreach and language instruction. Using organizations like these to distribute subsidies for de-paving and gardening projects is a great way to reach more people and to tune into what initiatives residents are already driving forward. Something I think is important to remember, though, is to involve these nonprofits not only on the implementation side, but also in the planning and writing about adaptation plans.


Katherine Peinhardt [00:25:40] To wrap this all up. All of these recommendations are basically to say that taking people into account means that we have a more comprehensive view of what resilience really means. If we keep that in mind, we’ll be better prepared as our cities and communities continue to come face to face with the climate crisis, not only in terms of public space, but generally. Rotterdam is by no means the only city working on climate resilience through public space. Cities like Bangkok, New York City, Vancouver and Toronto, among many others, are taking this approach, too. And as we heard before, places like Halifax are also kicking off community engagement based climate adaptation planning. I think we have a lot more examples to learn from as we start to see public space as an opportunity for both physical and social resilience in an era of climate change. Thank you.


Alex Bozicovic [00:26:30] Thanks, Katherine. That was a fantastic presentation. I really liked the way in which you made clear the connections between social and environmental sustainability, which is a connection that I know Julian often likes to make and explore.

You told us that our parks and streets can either support us in confronting shared problems, or not. And you also reminded us that public spaces that are designed to support resilience are still public spaces and they need to be compelling and pleasant to use and also accessible. And I really appreciated your emphasis on accessibility, a topic that should be sort of baked into all of the placemaking we do. And yet is not. But I think perhaps a central point and an important theme here for our conversation today is that climate hazards affect different communities unevenly. And so that is very much present. So that idea is very much present in the work of our next speaker Jeff Goodell. Jeff is a longtime contributing editor at Rolling Stone and the author most recently of along with a bunch of journalism on the subject, the book, ‘The Water Will Come: Rising Seas, Sinking Cities and the Remaking of the Civilized World’. Jeff has been exploring that very frightening topic in the United States and beyond, and his work has been really vivid in showing what the effects are and how uneven the effects are of climate hazards on different communities. Jeff, are you with us?


Jeff Goodell [00:28:06] I’m here. Welcome. Thank you for having me. I’m very happy to be here, share a screen here. It was take me just one second…there we go.


Jeff Goodell [00:28:29] Well, I’m very happy to be here. I wish I could be there literally in person with you all in Halifax. I’ve always wanted to come to visit Halifax. My grandmother is from St. John’s and I’ve spent some time up there, but I’ve never made it to Halifax, but I’m sure that I will at some point.


Jeff Goodell [00:28:50] So I would like to talk a little bit today about the sort of big picture of climate change, specifically about sea level rise and what I what I learned in the several years I spent researching this book I wrote called ‘The Water Will Come’, which really tries to look at the kind of global consequences of sea level rise, thinking about what causes it? What can be done about it? How how it will affect our coastal cities around the world? The subtitle of the book is The Remaking of the Civilized World, and I really think that that’s what’s going to happen. I think that, you know, [00:29:35]thinking about climate change and thinking about sea level rise is really going to force us to sort of reimagine the world that we live in. [7.1s] And sea level rise, of course, is the frontline issue for coastal cities around the world. So just let me talk about a couple of the sort of key points that I have come to understand are sort of the most central to thinking about this. And then I’ll say a couple of things about sort of where we go forward on this.


Jeff Goodell [00:30:06] The first question, I think that’s really the central question that everyone wants to know about and is what the scientists are sort of thinking most seriously about right now as they look at what’s going on with glaciers in Greenland and Antarctica and other places, is how much water is coming? How high is it going to get? How fast is it going to come? And these are not simple questions. We have IPCC reports and other things that give ranges. Right now, the range…high end. Well, mid range is about a meter by the end of the century. But these are really complicated questions. And in the real world, it’s not so simple. And there’s a lot at stake in these estimates. And I think there’s a misunderstanding about it, too. One of the misunderstandings is that we get these estimates of a meter, a meter and a half less than a meter or whatever the number is for twenty one hundred and there’s this notion that, you know, it’s going to stop there. And sea level rise is not going to stop there. Right. This is going to continue on for decades and decades.


Jeff Goodell [00:31:17] One of the things that a lot of people don’t get about the whole sea level rise question is that even if we were like all of a sudden, you know, became great citizens and we all, like, decided to outlaw fossil fuels around the entire world and we went to zero emissions tomorrow, the seas are going to still continue rising for decades and decades in the future. [00:31:41]In fact, the last time carbon levels in the atmosphere were where they are today. Seas were about 10 meters higher than they are right now. [11.8s] It doesn’t mean we’re gonna get 10 meters of sea level rise, but it does mean that there’s a lot of what’s called thermal calibration that’s going on. These glaciers, which are the main source of sea level rise, are going to continue to be melting for a long time no matter what we do with emissions. The other thing that’s really important, I think, to think about is I was certainly guilty of this when I was writing. I wrote about book. I don’t write about climate change for a long time. And I always thought about sea level rise as this sort of, you know, slow, gradual thing that we’ll deal with over time. And not as sort of urgent threat in any kind of way. You know, I mean, except for the sort of sunny day floodings. I just thought it was a sort of gradual, there’ll be a gradual rise in sea levels around the world.

[00:32:42]But in fact, when you look at history, you see that sea level rise has risen in pulses in the past. It’s not a slow, linear event. In fact, in this event called the Younger Dryas, about 12000 years ago, when we had significant ice melts here and in North America, there’s documented evidence of 13 feet of sea level rise in in a single century, which is extraordinary. Right. 13 feet of sea level rise in a century would be catastrophic virtually for every coastal community in the world. And, you know, I’m not saying that we’re gonna get 13 feet of sea level rise anytime soon, but I’m saying that that has happened in the past. And I’m also saying that we are pushing the system right now in ways that that we don’t know what the full consequences will be. [53.3s] And I think that this is really important to understand that sea level rise moves in pulses, and we don’t know exactly where those pulses are going to turn out to be.


Jeff Goodell [00:33:48] Another thing that is very important in thinking about this idea of placemaking, which is, you know, the theme of this conference is, is that not all places that not all coastal cities. Sea level rise is not like a bathtub where it goes up the same amount everywhere around the world. There’s a lot of regional variation. And when you think about placemaking, you have to think about it regionally in the sense of not only what is the kind of are you on a barrier island, do you have granite? Do you have places that are high in your city? Places to retreat to? What is that sort of. It’s a very different say in Miami, which is all flat as a pancake, and there’s virtually no higher areas to retreat to versus even a place like Manhattan where you have low areas in lower Manhattan, but then you have hot lots of high ground in upper Manhattan. So you can imagine the movement of the city there in the long term towards higher ground.


Jeff Goodell [00:34:49] But there’s also a thing that happens in coastal communities about subsidence, right. Of the ground sinking. And in the Gulf Coast, this is a big problem because of water pumping and the ground is actually going down. So we have this thing called relative sea level rise. Right. So the water’s going up. But if the ground is going down, also, that increases the sort of real time levels of water that are coming in. So the Gulf Coast, Jakarta, places like that have big problems with subsidence because of groundwater pumping and other things. But in Halifax, interestingly, there’s a problem of subsidence, not because of groundwater pumping, but because something called glacial rebound, which means that the weight of the glaciers on the North American continent have kind of depressed the center of the continent the way your hand pushes down a couch. And that had caused the coastline where Halifax is to to rise. And now as because those glaciers are gone, the center of Canada and the North America is rising slowly and Halifax is sinking. So you can see in this chart that the second this starts from St. John’s and goes around all the way to Galveston, Texas. And the second bar is is Halifax. And the blue the blue on the on the bar there is the amount of glacial rebound. So you can see that it’s quite significant in Halifax. And you can see that in all these scenarios, the amount of sea level rise that you’re going to see in Halifax is 10 or 15 percent higher than, say, Galveston, Texas, for no other reason than the coastline around Halifax is sinking because of this glacial rebound effect. So the point of this is that sea level rise is a very global thing, but it’s also very specific.


Jeff Goodell [00:36:45] And this question about how fast it’s going to happen is really complicated and interesting, and I want to talk just a tiny bit about a trip I took to Antarctica last year, which was an amazing three month, three and a half month long journey. That’s the ship I was on there. This is us off the coast of Antarctica. We went down to a place called Thwaites Glacier, which is in West Antarctica, which is one of the most sort of alarming tipping points in the entire climate system. Antarctica, as many of you may know, scientists thought it was quite stable for a very long time. There was a concern about what’s happening in Greenland and how fast Greenland is is melting. In Greenland, though, is melting the way a popsicle melts on a sidewalk on a hot summer day, its surface melt. It’s pretty easy to see. You have all these ice melt ponds, these things called moulins. Now where the water’s running off Antarctica with satellites. When you look at Antarctica with satellites and things, it doesn’t look like there was much ice melt. There isn’t much surface warming the way there is in Greenland. For a long time, scientists thought it was a pretty stable place. But the consequences of what’s happening in Antarctica are huge because if all of Greenland melted, you might get about 22 feet of sea level rise. If all of Antarctica melts, which, of course, is not going to happen anytime soon, you get about 220 feet. So there’s a 10 times basically as much ice in Antarctica. Well, about 10 years ago, scientist started to understand that there was a lot going on in in Antarctica. They just didn’t see it. And one of the things that’s happening there in the west Antarctic region around this Thwaites glacier is that because the ocean is warming a little bit. That the the warming water is getting over this lip on the edge of the continent, the way that the continent has been depressed because of the weight of the size and what’s happening is this warm water is getting underneath the ice sheets in western Antarctica.

And the consequences of that are quite alarming. And what is what is happening there is that Antarctica is in trouble, not in the same way that Greenland is from service melting, but because this warm water gets underneath the ice sheets. It starts at destabilize the ice sheet and it starts to fracture. And what you can what may be happening, in fact, is happening. We know now is that the entire ice sheet is vulnerable to kind of collapsing into the Southern Ocean in the way that I like a pile of ice cubes falls into the sea. And this is a very different scenario than that in Greenland. And the question is, how fast can this happen? How quickly can this happen? If Thwaites Glacier, the one we went to see, goes, it’s like a cork in a wine bottle and it opens up an outlet for a lot of other ice to come pouring out in a similar way to this in West Antarctica. And this is one way that we could get an enormous pulse of sea level rise, enormous meaning, you know, five or six feet over decades. This is one mechanism by which scientists believe that this could happen.

And this is something that we went down there to look at. And we determined and I can go into with this more detail if anybody wants to in the conversation, but is actually in process. But again, the question is how quickly it’s going to happen.


Jeff Goodell [00:40:24] But one of the freakiest things that happened to us when we are down there is this. So this looks a little weird, but this is the satellite image of the mouth of Thwaites Glacier. And that image on the left where the red dot is. That’s us and our ship on the 2nd of March, 2019. And I remember that day we were floating along. And then our ship moved a few kilometers to the north. As you can see, the red dot on the on the right side. And look at the collapse of the ice field where we were right in front of. That’s a twenty five mile by seventy five mile square area of ice that just collapsed, all of a sudden while we were there, when we saw it, all of a sudden there were all these giant aircraft carrier sized icebergs floating around us. And we didn’t really know what had happened until we saw these satellite images that were beamed down to us the next day. The point of this is, is that we were down there and this was happening in real time. We saw this collapse of this 25 by 70 mile area of Thwaites Glacier happened to while we were there. And it was a stunning example of these larger processes that are underway that are happening in real time. Even if we are living in Halifax or in Texas where I am today, don’t see them.


Jeff Goodell [00:41:54] The second thing I want to say about sea level rise is I think a big picture idea is that the trouble becomes, you know, happens long before the city becomes a new Atlantis. Right. It’s not like when there’s sharks swimming through the lobby of the Hilton Hotel. That’s when you’re in trouble. Sea level rise has all kinds of consequences very soon with the incremental rising of tides, incremental flooding. Some of what Katherine talked about with Rotterdam, a city that is trying to engineer its way through this is is, of course, a leader in. But, you know, one of the big consequences is people starting to leave, people just deciding that they want to move elsewhere, which is certainly a rational decision. But it has enormous implications, of course, for home values, for tax revenues and things like that. And that kind of movement and migration and devaluation makes it. Of course, all the more difficult to build the defenses and do other things that is necessary to protect communities. And this kind of thing happened. You know, is starting to happen already in many coastal communities in the U.S.. You start to see people migrating away. Again, a sensible decision, but it just makes it much more difficult to raise revenues for for local protections and things like that.


Jeff Goodell [00:43:13] You also get, you know, of course, migrations of people as they’re moving away, as their homes are flooded out. It’s not always just the high end selling your house kind of thing. The political consequences of this kind of movement of people that we’re going to be seeing, even with modest increase in flooding, has enormous implications, as I’m sure all of you, all of you know.


Jeff Goodell [00:43:37] Another really important point that. You know, I really saw while I was traveling around the world looking at this was this idea that, you know, we’re going to there’s no question we’re going to spend billions of dollars on climate adaptation, preserving places, observing architecture, preserving structures. You know, some of it’s going to be really well spent. Well thought out, thought out. But a lot of it is not. To put it another way, [00:43:59]there’s gonna be a lot of money spent on a lot of dumb ideas when it comes to how we adapt to sea level rise and climate change in general. [7.8s] Some ideas, some some. Some things like, you know, Miami is spending, you know, 500 million dollars putting in pump stations to help pump out the the problems they’re already having with flooding down there, which is a fine idea, of course, it helps in the short term, but it is it is a very short term fix of just a sort of temporary Band-Aid. And you should agree that this kind of thing puts off longer term thinking about, you know, how are we going to what are we going to do about the airport? What are we going to do about flooding in the sort of lower income neighborhoods? Lots of longer term questions at sea level rise brings up that these sort of short term fixes do nothing to address. And it’s one thing to spend five hundred million dollars on this and another thing to spend 500 million dollars on it again in 10 years or 15 years when the flooding increases. There’s the question of building enormous walls, right. That’s always a an option. This is an outside of New Orleans, these enormous walls that were built after Hurricane Katrina. Walls are, in my view, a very a 20th century way of thinking about the issue of sea level rise. The questions with walls have to do with. There’s many problems with walls, of course. But one of the biggest ones has to do with climate, environmental justice, which is who’s behind the wall and who’s not. How do you decide who’s behind the wall and who’s not? How do you build a wall that has the flexibility to deal with changes and sea level rise? You know, if we do get a large pulse of sea level rise, how’s that wall going to handle that? There’s many, many complicated questions about just sort of thinking that we’re going to build walls and forget about it.


Jeff Goodell [00:46:05] Great example of this is in Venice. I have a chapter in my book called The Ferrari on the Sea Floor. It’s about this high tech flood barrier in Venice. They spent about six and a half million dollars on it. You know, it’s designed to be invisible and is not being used. And then it floats up. These chambers fill with air and it floats up. And the problem is, is that, first of all, it’s so complicated. It doesn’t work very well. There’s been a lot of problems with like oysters growing in the hinges and sand in the hinges and all that kind of thing. But also, it’s not engineered for sea level rise. So they spent 25 years engineering this this project spent, you know, seven million dollars. And I know I think 30 people went to jail for corruption, it was a huge boondoggle and it’s already basically obsolete. And so how do you build again? How do you build in flexibility? And how do you build in the future of sea level rise in these enormous sort of hard structures? Is is a big, big question.


Jeff Goodell [00:47:18] And it’s a big question for for enormous infrastructure like naval bases, which I know is really important in Halifax. And I spend a lot of time at the Norfolk Naval Station in Norfolk, Virginia, which is largest naval base in the in the world. And long story short, they know how to raise the piers and do all the things they need to do to keep that naval station going in itself. But they’ve come to understand that keeping the base going also means, you know, how do they keep the railroads that bring the munitions and other supplies along the coast from flooding? How do they keep the neighborhoods where all the people live? Seventy thousand people or so who live in the area. How do they keep their homes from flooding? And basically, the Navy has come to a conclusion that saving the Norfolk Naval base requires saving all of that whole region of Virginia, which is a whole other question. And so it’s this idea that, you know, you can build a citadel, but nobody can get to that citadel or you can’t get supplies and people to that place. It’s not a very resilient citadel.


Jeff Goodell [00:48:30] Last point I want to make is, you know, really important. I think from my years of writing about climate change, the thing about this, [00:48:38]I think is just really clear that in the coming decades, if we’re going to reinvent where and how we live, there’s just that’s isn’t obvious. Physics is going to demand that. [11.5s] Right. And [00:48:51]I think that we’re at this point right now where we can decide whether we’re going to do basically the same dumb shit we’ve done before and keep building in the same way, keep designing our world in the same way, or use this as an opportunity to do something really different and to really think differently about how we live, where we live, who we’re building for, how we’re building. [20.6s] And I think that that’s what gives this moment such why I keep writing about this for all these years and why it’s so people ask me why. How do you write about climate change and not get bummed out? Because [00:49:25]I think this is a great moment of opportunity, of seeing a new kind of world emerging. And I think that a lot of young people get that, too, and they understand that they’re going to do things in a completely different way, you know, and it’s going to raise a lot of complicated questions. [17.0s] This is, you know, the saving of the more, the latest plan for lower Manhattan developing out into the harbor, putting in some dikes, basically building walls into the harbor that they’ll do out of development on their lower Manhattan is going to be kind of reimagined. And I think that’s a sure thing. It keeps getting changed over the years since Hurricane Sandy. But I think that there’s an inevitability to it. And the question is, will they do it well? Will they do it? Will they do it poorly? Will it be just a citadel for Wall Street or will it reimagine the waterfront in a way that makes it a place for everyone?Y’know. This is a friend of mine who’s an architect who has developed this idea for a platform city in Biscayne Bay. This is, you know, very, you know, futuristic kind of thinking. But, you know, I think that this is inevitable. We’re going to see this kind of thing. We’re going to see these people love water. We’re going to continue living on water. But how do you build this kind of a structure, these kind of places that are not just, you know, places for hedge fund millionaires to retreat to and how do you build it in a sort of fair and equitable way? You know, one example of this that I saw in Lagos, Nigeria, when I was working on my book is this floating community center that was built by a Nigerian Dutch architect. It was a huge hit. It was just a fabulous idea of how you can kind of reimagine a space, in this case a water slum and build something fairly simple that has enormous community usage. This thing is a marvel to look at. Everybody loved it, costs virtually nothing. It was a great example of kind of engineering for the people. In a way, unfortunately, this prototype blew down in a big storm. But they’re rebuilding it in a more resilient way. And it’s just a great example of thinking differently about how we build our spaces.


Jeff Goodell [00:51:51] And then, of course, there’s the broadest idea, which is the idea of a sort of Green New Deal and how we’re thinking more broadly about climate change. It’s not just about buildings and where we build, but it’s about how we think about our our lives and how we think about climate engaged in everything. Right. Health care, good paying jobs. All that to me, the Green New Deal is not perfect, there is lots of work to be done. But it’s the first step in a kind of real reimagining of what climate resilience kind of really looks like.


Jeff Goodell [00:52:22] I just want to end with what I think are the sort of big questions that this moment in time in thinking about how we’re going to deal with climate in our cities raises. The first one, of course, is what we’re going to get serious about cutting carbon?

Obviously, climate change is, all these changes will be reduced and we’ll have much less sort of to deal with if we can get with the business of cutting carbon pollution around the world. There’s not much evidence that we’re very serious about that. But hopefully we will be.


Jeff Goodell [00:52:56] I think for coastal communities, this question of when the real estate market collides with climate science, when people really start to really figure out that this is happening, this is real. This is going to have a big impact on my house values in the next decade or so. How are banks and insurance companies going to deal with this? Is going to have huge implications for cities everywhere. Where’s the money for climate adaptation going to come from? It’s all well and good to show these pictures. Think about how we’re going to reinvent our waterfront, do this or that. But where’s this money going to come from? I mean, it’s one thing to rebuild a city after a storm. And that’s something that’s a kind of tangible one time thing. But when you think about Halifax’s issues, when you think about New York’s issues when you think about Miami’s issues, when you think about, you know, every coastal community in Canada or in the United States having these problems all at once. Well, you know, our federal governments certainly do not have the money to deal with this. So how are we going to leverage private equity and things like that to help with these changes that we’re talking about.


Jeff Goodell [00:53:59] How quickly we’re going to stop building walls and learn to live with water? I think that’s the really key thing. I think, like I said before, the 20th century was about building walls. I think the 21st century is about learning to live with water. And I think that that’s going to be the sort of mantra of the of the coming decades flexibility, resiliency, uncertainty, dealing with the uncertainty of how much water is going to come and how fast.


Jeff Goodell [00:54:28] And finally, and maybe most important is this question of who and what decides what’s going to be saved. Because there is going to be a lot of really complicated decisions being made. You know, we can spend five billion dollars to build lovely walls and infrastructure to save lower Manhattan. But how much are we going to spend to save, you know, lower income communities in Queens and Brooklyn? How are we going to decide how that works? Every coastal community from Rotterdam to Halifax to Jakarta is going to face that same issue. The government in Jakarta wants there decided to move the government itself, the offices and everything to higher ground hundreds of miles away. That’s great. Fine. I think that kind of relocation and retreat makes sense. But what about everybody else who’s left behind? And I think you’ll see this playing out everywhere from, you know, the sort of human aspect of it for neighborhoods that will have to be abandoned to things as simple as historic preservation. I speak with a lot of historic preservation societies about what buildings can be saved, which ones cannot. How do you decide what you’re going to let go and where you’re going to hold on to?


Jeff Goodell [00:55:47] So anyway, I think that’s the big picture that I wanted to talk about today. And I look forward to our conversation in a few minutes.


Alex Bozicovic [00:55:59] Jeff, thanks so much. That was fascinating and also more than a little bit terrifying me. So you told us and some of us knew this perhaps, and some of us did not. But you told us that sea level rise. First of all, there’s not going to stop. It’s not going to stop at the sort of arbitrary point where we’ve drawn the line at twenty one hundred. You’ve told us that sea level rise happens, in pulses. It’s not necessarily and almost certainly will not be a gradual thing, but will happen in dramatic ways, perhaps even quick enough to happen before our eyes. As you experience yourself. But this is, I think, the crucial sort of realization here is that climate change is not going to be a problem, as you said, when there are sharks swimming through the hotel lobby. But it already is. It’s already happening. And it’s having social and economic effects that are already being felt and being felt disproportionately by people who are disadvantaged. As you talked about New York, I was thinking about a paper that the sociologist and climate scholar Daniel Aldana Cohen published just last week. And in talking about that paper, he was discussing the ways in which Hurricane Sandy, which is supposed to change everyone’s perception of climate and be the event that sort of made everyone wake up didn’t really do that. That, as you said, the city of New York has been focused on fortifying rather than trying to address the in a meaningful way the larger problems that actually caused climate change rather than try and reduce, you know, on a local level trying to reduce carbon. You know, the city is fortifying. And Professor Aldana Cohen said that, you know, everyone agreed that this storm was caused by climate change. It was just more convenient to focus on fortification. So, I mean, I think that is along with the other sobering scenarios you brought forward, a very realistic one for us to deal with that. As you said, you know, hedge fund people are going to be just fine in their little bubbles behind their walls and perhaps many of the rest of us will not. So to address that. Thank you very much.


Alex Bozicovic [00:58:10] To address those sort of connections and to address the the link between social justice and environmental sustainability is very much the wheelhouse of our next speaker, Julian Agyeman. He is a professor of urban environmental policy at Tufts University in Massachusetts, and he’s the author of the editor of 12 books, including Just Sustainabilities and Sharing Cities: A Case for Truly Smart and Sustainable Cities.

So, Julian, are you with us?


Julian Agyeman [00:58:39] I’m with you. Thank you very much Alex…let’s just get the technology here. Can everybody see that? OK.


Julian Agyeman [00:58:58] I’m going to talk, and in many ways, it follows very well from our previous two speakers. But in a sense, I’m going to go behind the scenes and really look at some of the theoretical ideas that we really need to clarify, and I’m going to show some examples as well of what I call a Just Sustainability. But first, I want to do a land recognition. I’m presenting to you from Medford, Massachusetts, in the Boston metro area. And I’m acknowledging that I’m on the traditional territory of the Wampanoag and the Massachusetts people. And I want to pay my respects to their elders that past, present and future and commit to a principle of respect and care as part of this meeting. And some of you might know it is 400 years to this very month that the Mayflower landed in Massachusetts and began the settler colonial journey of which we are now still part.


Julian Agyeman [00:59:53] Let me give you some history about this concept of Just Sustainabilities. People and my students sometimes said, Julian, you know, sustainability, that’s that kind of flash in the pan idea. Uh-uh, It’s the most robust organizing concept I think we’ve got in the world today. I first heard the term sustainability in 1980 in the world conservation strategy. In 1987, we had the World Conference on Environment and Development, the Brundtland Report. In 1992, though, we had the Rio Earth Summit. And much of the discussion that I’ve noticed since then has been focused really around environmental sustainability. In fact, if you went out into Halifax today and asked 10 people what they thought sustainability was, nine out of 10 or maybe even 10 would say it’s about the environment. And of course, it is about the environment, but it’s about so much more. And I identified what I call the equity deficits in sustainability. Many people since then have really started to talk like me about the importance of equity and social justice, because I can envision us legislating for implementing in a technical way a green world. But if that world wasn’t socially just, would it really be sustainable? So my work focuses on the links between environmental quality and human equality. One of the reasons why I think we haven’t done very well on either is because we’ve siloed. Environmental quality is being a green issue and human equality is being the things that Amnesty International and those social justice groups do. Let’s talk together about environmental quality and human equality. So really, in the early 2000s, I argued sustainability cannot be simply a green or environmental concern. Important, though, environmental aspects of sustainability are. A truly sustainable society is one where the wider questions of social need and welfare, and economic opportunity are integrally related to living within environmental limits. Now, about 10 years ago, a very important book came out called ‘The Spirit Level: Why Equality is Better for Everyone’. And here’s the bottom line with this book. It’s not poverty that kills. It’s inequality. Inequality is literally killing us and we need to think about that. But I want to hone in on some of the data, the 40 years of data that were collected across the world for the making of this book. And as I say, the headline is The countries with the biggest level of inequality had the highest levels of social inequality, domestic violence, robbery, you name it. On every level, more unequal societies produce more social malaise. But the thing I think was really important for us to think about is that inequality heightens competitive consumption. Oh, just one other thought before I say this. Advertising revenues were also found to be highly correlated with inequality. Inequality sells, countries with higher inequality have much higher advertising revenues. Inequality also heightens competitive consumption, keeping up with the Joneses. People consume to get into the next level from the poor to the middle class, middle class to the upper middle class, middle class into the rich, the rich, the super rich, et cetera. We are on an escalator of consumption. What does that escalator drive? It drives our carbon footprints. Inequality is related to climate change. [01:03:40]How often do we hear people talking about the need to decrease inequality as a strategy in climate change mitigation? We don’t. We really need to think about that. [11.2s] So if we really want to understand sustainability, I think we need to focus on human equality and inequality and environmental quality together.


Julian Agyeman [01:04:01] So how do I define Just Sustainabilities? I define just sustainability is as [01:04:06]the need to ensure a better quality of life for all. Now and into the future in a just and equitable manner while living within the limits of supporting ecosystems. [7.9s] And there are four conditions we need to improve people’s quality of life and well-being. We need to meet the needs of both present and future generations. We need to ensure justice and equity in terms of recognition, process, procedure and outcome. Let me stop there. That word recognition is extremely important. Black Lives Matter. Me too. Indigenous writes, We are witnessing, as we are feeling, ecological collapse, increasing calls for recognition. We cannot have any form of reconciliation between different groups in our society unless we recognize the rights of those groups to even be and to exist. All of this, all of these three preconditions must take place within ecosystem limits. That is absolutely essential.


Julian Agyeman [01:05:08] Now, I want to give you two overarching thoughts on urban planning, which is the place that I inhabit. What is urban planning? It’s about managing our coexistence in shared space. Coexistence, shared space. It would be easy to manage our coexistence in shared space if everybody were alike. But we live in increasing cities of difference and whether we’re talking about environmental issues, transportation, housing, other conflicts, we’re managing and sharing space and trying to coexist with people who live in increasingly different and diverse cities.


Julian Agyeman [01:05:45] Related to this is what is the relationship between belonging and becoming? Our first two speakers have talked about becoming smart, sharing resilient cities. That’s what we’re good at as technical planners. But I want to suggest we need to think about belonging, as well. Recognition, reconciliation, difference, diversity and inclusion. We need to right the balance in urban planning and sustainability, in resilience planning between what our cities can become and who gets to belong in those cities, because ultimately what our cities can become will be derived by who gets to belong. And I also [01:06:24]both my colleagues have mentioned sort of human scale planning, I want to add an ‘e’. I want to humane-scaled planning. I want planning for human dignity. [10.1s] I want planning for urban equality and equity. And I think my just sustainabilities idea helps us think through both of these together.


Julian Agyeman [01:06:46] Now, I’m going to give you two quick examples of just sustainabilities in practice. One is called spatial justice. How do we allocate rights in urban spaces and places? And then I want to ask the rather pertinent question about Minneapolis. [01:07:00]How does one of the most green liberal cities in the US end up as the epicenter of our current introspection over structural racism? [7.0s] Spatial justice. Not all cities have walls. Jerusalem does. Belfast used to, Nicosia and Cyprus does. [01:07:14]But many cities in the U.S., certainly there’s a freeway, a rail track, a creek or a river. And on one side they live, and on the other side you live. They have lower life chances. You have higher life chances. They have lower life expectancy. You have higher life expectancy. Spatial justice. Spatial injustice is a feature of cities around the world. Why is it that certain neighborhoods get certain things and other neighborhoods don’t? [26.1s] Let me bring this down to the level of the street. Here is two streets, Massachusetts Avenue in Cambridge, Massachusetts, where I live. And then on the other side, on the left is Sudravagan in Gothenburg, Sweden, two streets, identical width. But the spatial organization of those streets couldn’t be any more different. On the left, we have a democratized street, the Swedish polity, the Swedish urban planners, Swedish people want a democratized street. In Cambridge, Massachusetts. You can see it’s the size of your vehicle that gives you access to space. On the left, the only space open to private vehicles is to the left of the low barrier near the street car. Now, why is this important? Well, think about growing up on those streets. How is a kid wired differently? What do they think when they step out onto Sudrevagan and see order and they step out onto Massachusetts Avenue and they see basically organized chaos? Now we have data. We know the car traffic decreases social interaction on streets. On the heavily trafficked street, you can see there’s much less interaction between people than there is on the lightly traffic street. The lightly traffic street probably has some forms of traffic calming. What’s the just sustainabilities point here? Well, who lives on streets that are more heavily trafficked?

There’s absolutely abundant data showing that if you are in a low income minority neighborhood, you are much more likely to have a heavily trafficked street than if you live in one of the more toney, green neighborhoods, complete streets, bike lanes, medians, climate change adaptation measures, et cetera, et cetera.


Julian Agyeman [01:09:32] Spatial justice is more, though, than just building in bike lanes and building these nice streets. We have in the United States a category of what I call invisible cyclists. These are people who are not counted in cycle counts because you know what, cycle counts take part in downtown areas and they don’t take into account the race, the gender of cyclists. It’s just click, click, click. When a cycle goes by. So we don’t really know how many invisible cyclists there are. But these are people who often use their bikes for cargo. Just down the road from me, every Friday morning at recycling day, I see an elderly Asian-American man who uses his bike as a packhorse. He collects stuff and he tapes it onto his bike and pushes his bike along. He doesn’t cycle it. Is he a cyclist? We are missing out on the ideas in cyclists planning of a lot of people. Plus, in those neighborhoods, we see that Latino cyclists have 23 percent higher fatality rates. African- Americans, 30 percent higher. Policing of those neighborhoods and issuing of citations is much higher if you’re African-American. So, like our first speaker was saying, it’s not just about physical infrastructure. We need to think about the social infrastructure and we need to think about the ways black and brown bodies are enabled or not, to move around in spaces. So spatial justice is more than simply bike lanes. We need to think about issues of social infrastructure and why some bodies are policed more strongly than other bodies in cities.


Julian Agyeman [01:11:16] One of the solutions to that spatial injustice is this idea of complete streets. Every city in North America has a complete streets plan. It’s trying to do a good thing, reverse car-centric planning thats exacerbated the problems in our cities. So what is a complete street? Who gets to say what a complete street is? Now, [01:11:39]Doreen Massey says that streets, places are constantly shifting articulations of social relations through time. But try telling that to the designers of complete streets, most of whom are male and most of whom are physically oriented designers. They don’t see the streets as the streets on the left, which is a social ecology. [21.2s] The complete street’s rhetoric, I would therefore say disconnect streets from significant social, symbolic, discursive and historical realities. Complete streets are good, but we need to broaden the definition. We need to bring in a social ecological notion of the street. And we need to think who gets to say what a complete street is. One of the big problems of complete streets, though, is the phenomenon of greenlining. We are seeing in the United States certain neighborhoods which have had this really nice green street treatment, but they are being green lined and gentrification is happening. What does that mean? That means that basically these streets are exclusive, in that a price premium is paid for a sustainable neighborhood. And I added a book series here. We have books on green gentrification. We have books on incomplete streets. Who gets to decide what a complete street is? Why is it that in the US, certainly green streets come with a price premium? And one of the problems with this idea of green lining is that it seems now that we are systematically through these green neighborhoods, reproducing urban spatial and social inequalities and injustices that have characterized our cities for the last century or more. And just to leave you with this idea, walkability is probably the most measured of sustainability metrics.

Walkability is a very measurable thing and it’s a scale from zero to 100. And it gives you your walk score. When you buy a home, often, if you’ve got a good walk score, the realtor will put this home has a walk score of 95. Who owns the app walkscore? Well, it’s Redfin, the giant real estate agency. Folks I want to put it to you, we have compromised sustainability such that the key measurable walkability is literally owned by a real estate company. How do we decouple sustainable neighborhoods which everybody wants and everybody should have? How do we decouple that from gentrification and displacement? I don’t have the time to go into that, but that is one of the great challenges of urban planning. How do we give everybody good healthful neighborhoods that increase people’s well-being while not increasing prices? And I’ll just leave you with one thought, a great geographer said. We’re building cities for people to invest in, not to live in. We need to change that. We need to build cities for people to live in, not opportunities for investment.


Julian Agyeman [01:14:48] My second example is a great example of unjust sustainabilities. So on the one hand, we could look at Minneapolis and Portland, Oregon, as green utopias. And they are. People are flooding to Minneapolis, to Portland because they’re green cities. Minneapolis has the best parks system in the US. It’s got the third highest level of bike commuters. It’s got exercise trails. The article blesses the miracle of Minneapolis. So on the one level, if we look at it, we can be assured of moving towards environmental sustainability. But on another level, scratch the surface and Minneapolis is actually a racist town. It’s racial inequality is the worst in the nation. The black white income gap is the highest in the nation. The homeownership gap. More often or the wealth gap is the highest in the nation, and the opportunity or achievement gap in schools is also similarly extremely high for Indigenous and especially African-Americans. So on the one level, it’s a green city, but underneath that, it’s a very unequal city. Why is that? Well, Kirsten Delegard, who is the historian behind the Mapping Prejudice Project, says all that rhetoric about Minneapolis being a model metropolis at the cutting edge of great urban planning obscures darker truths about the city. Now before the early nineteen hundreds.

Minneapolis was a relatively integrated city. It had a small but integrated population of African-Americans largely. But from the early nineteen hundreds, we saw racialized covenants. This home cannot be rented or sold to anybody but people of the Caucasian race. We’ve seen racialized zoning, which was outlawed in 1917 by the U.S. Supreme Court. But what came in? Racism by the backdoor, by exclusionary or single family zoning, which made up 70 percent of Minneapolis land. We’ve also had redlining, the denial of loans to people living in certain neighborhoods by both government agencies and by private sector loan agencies. This this amounts to racial segregation then and now. So that’s the dark underbelly of Minneapolis. I’ll just say one other thing about that. 93 percent of the police officers in Minneapolis don’t live in the city. [01:17:23]If you if your organization doesn’t look like the people it is there to serve. Are you legitimate? Are you trusted? Are you even effective? Can you do what you think you can do? Organizations must become more diverse to look like the communities in which they operate. [15.8s]


Julian Agyeman [01:17:42] There’s a direct link between these practices and today’s modern zoning plans. And part of the impetus for the change that is now going on in Minneapolis is to undo some of those impacts. [01:17:54]And I’ll put it more simply, urban planning is the spatial toolkit for articulating, implementing and maintaining white supremacy. And we can do something about it. [10.1s] What is Minneapolis doing? Well, like Portland, Minneapolis has a progressive young city council. They’re trying to move on these longstanding historical issues. And Minneapolis was the first large city to end single family zoning, allowing duplexes and triplexes on single family land. They’ve had a program now of inclusionary zoning, which will require moderate to low income people access to 10 percent of units within larger developments. And this is all part of the Minneapolis 2040 plan. And the number one goal is the elimination of disparities to see all communities fully thrive, regardless of race, ethnicity, gender, country of origin, religion or zip code. So in my talk, really what I want to say is [01:18:57]we must centre social justice and equity. These things never simply happen. They need to be baked into our policies from the beginning. It is very difficult to retrofit equity and social justice. [11.9s] But Minneapolis is now trying hard to do that. Thank you.


Alex Bozicovic [01:19:18] Thank you, Julian. That was fascinating. I personally find it really interesting that you wind up by talking about urban planning and talking about land use planning as a tool of economic and of racial segregation, and particularly that you talk about Minneapolis. This is a discussion that I personally have been engaged with in earnest for the past couple of years. I coedited a book on the subject. And so I was very interested to see from Canada these very progressive policy moves happening in Minneapolis, which I understood to be quite a progressive city. And then after George Floyd and after the rise of Black Lives Matter. It was only then that I came to understand precisely how racially segregated and how how that city was and how much spacial injustice was present there. So thank you for making these connections. And I think it’s important to recognize that this year has been a year of learning for many of us on many different fronts, and that the sorts of connections that you are drawing here are indeed present in American cities and in Canadian cities. Whether we have chosen to see them or not.


Alex Bozicovic [01:20:28] I also thought your critique of complete streets was really interesting. There’s another link that, you know, the idea that certain people are able to define what a complete street is and that who gets to live there reflects existing inequalities. I think is an important one. You know, it’s also there are connections, I think, very explicit ones between these points that you’ve been talking about in that, you know, urban planning actually puts people on busy streets. It is the same urban planning policies that have created segregation and have perpetuated segregation that now put new residents on the busiest, noisiest, most polluted places in the city. And that that in itself continues to advantage the existing, established, generally wealthier homeowners who control the cities that we live in. So a fascinating set of links here. Thank you very much.


Alex Bozicovic [01:21:27] And moving over to Tamika, you know, we’re moving very much into Tamika’s wheelhouse, talking about inequity, inequality and social justice is what she has been doing for a living within fields in which those discussions have not been foregrounded. Tamika is a lawyer by training, and she is the principal and founder of Tamika Butler Consulting. So she provides a variety of consulting services to organizations in the public and private sectors. These days, that has included the Los Angeles Department of Public Health, the Center for Popular Democracy and the National Association of City Transportation Officials. I have learned a lot from hearing her speak and from reading her, and I’d be very happy to welcome her. Tamika, are you with us?


Tamika Butler [01:22:11] I am. Can you hear me?


Alex Bozicovic [01:22:13] I can.


Tamika Butler [01:22:14] And can folks see my screen?


Alex Bozicovic [01:22:17] Yes.


Tamika Butler [01:22:17] Great. So thanks so much for having me. I too wish I could be in Halifax. I have been before and I’ve enjoyed it greatly. But to bring me closer, I’m simply wearing a bow tie gifted to me by my great friends in Halifax, including one of the organizers. You guys have brought together a great group of folks and I’m glad to. To round us out. And we’ll keep try to keep it as short as possible so that we can get to as much Q and A. as we can.


Tamika Butler [01:22:50] So I’m going to talk a little bit about the L.A. County Sustainability Plan, which is a plan I worked on as a consultant. And I’m really happy to just share a little bit about the plan. So just a little bit about myself. My background is as a civil rights lawyer, I am now an urban planner. I have started my own consulting firm. I was most recently at a private consulting firm as the Director of Equity Inclusion and and the California Planning Director. It was a firm with offices in the United States and in Canada. And I frequently traveled between both and working on how to integrate equity into our urban planning work is truly Julian just so brilliantly talked about.


Tamika Butler [01:23:37] So let me tell you a little bit about L.A. County. I think it’s it’s first important to note not only that I am I’m zooming into you from stolen Tongva land, but that

L.A. County has has been home even before colonizers drew lines on a map to Indigenous folks. And that is an important history that I think is so much a part of sustainability and so much a part of planning and so much a part of land use that we often try to ignore. You know, even as an oppressed black person, I am a settler and in my neighborhood in many ways, right. And so I think just continuing to elevate the Indigenous folks whose land that we continue to inhabit.


Tamika Butler [01:24:28] A little bit more about Los Angeles County, one in four Californians and one in 33 Americans live in L.A. County. We have a lot of people here. We speak a lot of languages here. We have a coastline as well. So many of the problems that my colleagues spoke about earlier, resiliency, adaptation. We’re trying to tackle here where I live. And, you know, the county is roughly the size of Hawaii’s big island. It’s bigger than several other U.S. states. And if the county was its own economy, we would be a G20 country. So that is huge. And so, you know, I want to talk about sustainability, climate adaptation and people of color, racialized folks. And for some people, you know, that may be confusing. Not for Julian. Clearly, he and I are speaking about a lot of the same things. And I’m so fortunate to have him have blazed a trail. But I think for some people, when they think about people of color and built environment, they are as confused as many of us are here in the states about Kanye West running for president. But when we think about land and how it’s been used and how it’s been planned, race has always been a factor.

Race, you know, has been a factor when we think about things that are supposed to be public resources, but really only people, certain people can go to them. You know, it is not abnormal for black kids to be on the outside looking in. My mom grew up on the coast in South Carolina, where there are some of the most beautiful beaches that are being eroded by climate change. But she tells these stories of not being able to go to the best beaches because the best beaches where the white beaches and that shouldn’t be a surprise.


Tamika Butler [01:26:32] This is a book that Hitler once referred to as his Bible. It talks about whites being the great white race and other people muddying the race. And the person who wrote this book is actually who we in the States call one of our fathers of our national parks program. And so, you know, when we think about something that, again, is supposed to be a great resource, our national parks getting outside, especially during COVID, what we find is that really it was just a system created by white folks to take land from Indigenous folks put up rules and barriers and keep certain people out. And we see even today that whether or not you’re talking about the states, whether or not you’re talking about Canada, when you talk about national parks and resources. The numbers of racialize people of people of color who go there are lower than white people. The barriers that were started to keep us out to take land continue today. And some people know about that is redlining. Redlining is a really thoughtful, theoretical exercise, but it’s essentially when people in power who were not folks of color got out maps and decided what was OK. Where could you where could you invest money? Where could you not invest money? And where were the hoods that you, you know, wanted to not go to or are keep keep people out of, including resources.


Tamika Butler [01:27:58] For a more thoughtful discussion of redlining, many people think of ‘The Color of Law’ and ‘The Color of Law’ says it’s a forgotten history of how government segregated America. But still, the ‘Color of Law’ is written by a white man. And again, it’s a great book. I suggest people read it, but a forgotten history for who? It’s not a forgotten history for so many folks who have been pushed off their land. And whether or not you’re talking about reservations, whether or not you’re talking about hoods and ghettos. It’s not a forgotten history how we have used planning and land use to keep certain people out. So what does that have to do with the environment? What does that have to do with environmentalism? Well, environmental justice is real. Because when you look at low income communities, when you look at communities of color, that’s where some of the most environmentally unjust actions are happening. [01:28:58]There is an affluent black neighborhood here in Los Angeles County that I live very close to. It was once the subject matter of a cable television show about rich black people. People there have a lot of money, but it’s also the site of the largest active oil drilling in the United States. And it’s not because those people are poor, it’s because they’re black. And that’s where we make decisions on where to put things. [27.5s] That’s where we have toxic sites and communities of color. It’s not abnormal to look out and see right next to you huge fences where you can’t see what’s behind them, but you can smell what’s behind them.

You can see the smoke. And we all know the legacy. Whether or not you’re talking about Canada, whether I’m talking about Halifax, whether or not you’re talking about the United States, of the ways that highways have cut through low income communities and communities of color, ripped apart families, taken homes and just make us throughfares. Are we communities where folks can get off and enjoy and shop? Are we just places that people have demolished, put up their highway and drive through? And that also has impacts on health. South L.A. is a predominantly black and latinex community. West L.A., it’s a predominantly white community. And you can see the difference in how we use the land in these spaces based on who inhabits these pieces. [01:30:27]The race you are impacts the quality of life you have. We know that the zip code you are born in is more predictive of life outcomes than many other factors. [11.3s] And for so many racialized people, we have to grapple with the fact that our neighborhoods are killing us. And so we can talk about big picture concepts like climate change and like sea level rising. And all of those things are real and all of those things are important. But to Julian’s point, if we’re not talking about those things with a justice focused framework, then we can make changes. We can adapt. But those who are left behind will continue to be left behind.


Tamika Butler [01:31:11] And in honor of Schitt’s Creek winning so many Emmys and really elevating the Canadian Hollywood scene on which made my wife, who’s French Canadian, very happy. She loves the show.


Tamika Butler [01:31:25] I think, you know, when I think about climate and folks of color, people often have this look, when you say to them: You know, folks of color are actually better at climate resilience and being environmentalist than anyone else. But all of us who grew up in low income communities and communities of color, we have the parents who said, save that plastic bag, we’re going reuse it, save that silverware from the fast food place. We’re gonna reuse it. We’re going to wash that. We can use it again. Turn off the lights. I’m not lighting the whole community, close the door. I’m not providing air for the whole community. Don’t turn on the air. Open the windows. Right. We grew up in households where we were always recycling, reusing, thinking about our resources and thinking about how to be better for not just our family, but for the community.


Tamika Butler [01:32:21] And the thing that is even more puzzling is that we say COVID- 19 has laid inequalities to bear, but yet it’s not clear what we’re doing about it here on the West Coast. We are experiencing fires that are a clear sign of climate change. Our president doesn’t necessarily think so. But what did you see when you saw these clouds of smoke? You still saw migrant workers. You still saw people of color going to work every day in the fields. [01:32:55]We are being told we can’t go outside, that the air is not safe to breathe. But we are also being told that the people whose lives don’t matter are those who pick our food. [8.7s] We are being told that in a pandemic, when we’re supposed to stay inside and socially distant, that it is still people of color who we expect to deliver our packages to check us out at the grocery store to pick our food and to make us OK when we can’t go outside. And so, again, if climate is going to drastically change everything we do, if we continue to only make changes in ways that value some lives and devalue others, then how just and how sustainable is that change if we determine that only some of us are worth saving. But some of us are only worth helping others be saved, then is that really justice? And again, this is a problem that traverses the whole continent. This is a problem that folks face no matter where you live. Where we’re seeing that there were things that were already there. But COVID-19 is making it worse.


Tamika Butler [01:34:01] And so with all of that, [01:34:03]the L.A. County Sustainability Plan was different. It said we can’t ignore these facts when we’re talking about sustainability. We have to put them front and center. And we did that first by making sure equity was a key component of the plan. And we realized that equity and sustainability has to incorporate the procedures, the distribution of benefits and burdens, the structural accountability and the generational impact. If you are thinking about equity and you were thinking about sustainability, you have to think about it on these four dimensions, because if you’re not thinking about it on these four dimensions, if you’re just cursory throwing equity out there, then your sustainability work is not actually sustainable. [43.6s] And the way we did this was by putting together a team of organizations that were going to help with this work. Many times municipalities say we’re going to put together a sustainability plan. We may do a few public meetings, but we have the experts. We’re going to put together the plan and we’re going to decide what’s best. But what this plan actually did is have lead organizations that utilize community based organizations. And so that organization, Liberty Hills, actually a foundation and a foundation that specializes in funding community organizing groups. And then L.A. County, despite being big, it’s divided into only five supervisor, we call them districts. Each district had a community based organization that knows the area now well, that is deeply invested in the community. They were paid money and they led the events. There were some subject matter experts of which I was one. But we really let the community direct us. And what that ended up happening is that we had a number of events that were totally different. We had the picture in the bottom left is a fair that was at a community college where in addition to folks, as you can see, sitting on a table and learning about some of the parts of the sustainability plan, there were also being baskets and blankets woven. There were soap and candles.

Merchants from around the county also got to come and sell their wear in addition to riding on busses and taking tours in electric vehicles, having students, having elders altogether. So each event was different based on what reflected the community and the folks who were leading the workshops. As you can see, we’re community members, not the typical experts from the municipality that you’re likely to see. And because we had community based groups when we were there to talk about sea level rise and the coast and a community member said, I’m worried about gentrification and displacement. These were not meetings where we said, oh, well, this is a climate meeting. We can’t talk about education. Oh, you’re worried about kids getting hit by cars because there’s no infrastructure in your neighborhood? Well, this is a sustainability meeting. No, these community based organizations were able to hear everything. We were able to connect people and we were able to hold that intersectionality that is important in equitable sustainability work.


Tamika Butler [01:37:10] The way the plan is structured is that there are different goals. There are 12 goals and each goal has multiple strategies and actions that we will take to hit the goals, so just a quick view of the 12 goals. And again, this plan is intersectional. It is covering everything from accessible parks to the buildings and infrastructure to a fossil free L.A. to transportation. [01:37:36]It is a realization that you have to talk about equitable and sustainable land use at the same time you’re talking about thriving ecosystems and habitat and biodiversity, if you want to tackle sustainability. [11.1s] And again, these words are words that you might not expect that local community based organizations would be using and would be talking to their residents about. But all of these things were done with the community leading, with the community being paid, with their expertize and with their expertize being trusted. [01:38:07]Everything in this plan has been vetted by community and understood by community and push forth by community. [5.7s] Here’s an example of what a page would look like in the plan. It would have the strategy, which is under one of the goals. It would have one of the actions that you need to accomplish the strategy and then it lays out the targets. What are we going to do? By what year? Because accountability is important.


Tamika Butler [01:38:31] The topics that were covered in this expansive plan. Again, everything from water to land use in transportation, to housing. This was not a plan that said we only care about the environment. It was a plan that realized that if you care about the environment, you have to care about people. You have to care about infrastructure.

You have to care about buildings. And you have to look at things intersectionally. So sure, we have some ideas about living streets, but living streets are about transportation.

They’re about public health. They’re about stormwater management. They’re about urban forestry. It is about looking at the intersections of these issues. Similarly, addressing oil and gas is also about redressing the siding of polluting facilities and environmental justice, frontline communities of color. It’s about thinking about worker safety. It’s about thinking about GHG emissions and improving air and water and soil quality. So it’s looking at sustainability at these intersections. But at every intersection, it was placing people right in the middle, whether you’re talking about worker safety, whether talking about job training and whether or not you’re talking about how you even engage people. Remember. One of our parts of equity was the procedures and the processes by which we came together. So if you are curious to know more about the plan, then here’s the website you can go to. You can learn more.


Tamika Butler [01:39:56] But I just want to add a few more things about the components of doing equitable sustainability work that we utilize in this plan. First, we understood power. We understood that [01:40:09]there are two types of power. There’s power over people and there’s power with people. [4.5s] Kanye West. Old Kanye West, not new Kanye West, new Kanye West, as I’ve already said, is confusing. Old Kanye West had the song ‘Power’ and he said “no one man should have all that power”. Right. And that’s the thing that somehow we’ve forgotten. We’ve set up these systems where we want to be indispensible as experts, as government workers, as academics. We want to hold the keys. And we have to realize that sometimes that’s only exhibiting power over folks. And we actually have to start having power with people. We have to start co-powering. And this whole plan was about co-powering. This whole plan was the folks who might be viewed as having the power historically, the elected officials, the city office, the county office. It was about all of those people saying, you know what, the powers in the community. So we’re gonna go to the community, we’re gonna pay the community, we’re gonna treat them as experts, just like we would treat any consultant. And we’re gonna have power with them.

We are going co-power to get this plan done. And all of these things, if you don’t ever have to think about relinquishing power, if you don’t ever have to think about whether or not that oil drilling site is in your neighborhood just because of the color of your skin, if you don’t have to think about some of the things Julian talked about, if you get to be in Minneapolis and you only get to think about it being a green utopia, and you don’t ever have to think about it being the place where black people continue to die, then it’s because you have privilege. [01:41:42]And the real work, in this plan was thinking about power and privilege at every step. Yes, we were thinking about sustainability. Yes, we were thinking about climate change, but we were also constantly thinking about power and privilege. [13.6s]


Tamika Butler [01:41:56] And the power and privilege framework that I often talk about was put together in this beautiful ideal setting in Austria, the Salzburg Organization, brought together an intersectional group of people at this Building, Healthy, Equitable Communities Roundtable. It was people from all over the world. The Americans who were there were funded by the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, and it was urban planners like me. It was doctors. It was nurses. It was public health officials. It was government officials. And we were all talking about, if you were going to build equitable and healthy communities, what would it take? And we decided, my group, that you needed to talk about power and privilege, because often when we talk about equity, this is the picture we think of that if you give everybody the same box, they still can’t see the game. But if you give people what they need. They can see the game. [01:42:48]This picture is outdated.

And I hope people stop using this picture or their presentations. First of all, it’s not accurate. It doesn’t really show the reality of where some people, especially the folks who are in our most environmentally impacted communities, are starting. And it actually doesn’t show what we should be trying to get to, which is liberation. Why are we just trying to look over the fence? Why are we not relinquishing power? Because in this picture, someone still has power that is still telling these people that their ultimate goal should be watching a baseball game. What if they don’t like baseball? What if they’re Canadian? What if they prefer hockey? What if they don’t want to play? What if they want to watch in the stands? What if they want to sell peanuts? What if they want to own the team? [45.2s] And so when we think about really giving power to communities, it’s relinquishing all the power. It’s saying we’re not going to determine what’s in this plan before we even start. We’re giving the power to the communities. We’re not going to determine that what they should want is watching a baseball game. When you are ready to confront power and privilege. You have to create brave spaces, not safe spaces. Many people say they want a safe space to talk about issues like equity. But for folks who are racialized, we’re never safe. We could always be shot just for the color of our skin. So you have to be brave. You have to understand the role that power plays in the work. And then you have to analyze and challenge the privilege. Who is constantly getting sacrificed? Who is making the decisions? And are those the same people who are most impacted?


Tamika Butler [01:44:23] And last but not least, I would say again, COVID has laid so many issues bare. And what we keep hearing is that it is creating opportunities. But it is one of our experts here in the states, Naomi Doarner, who does a lot of work on equity, has said we don’t want to just hear about opportunities. We don’t just want to hear about how COVID, how the uprising is providing these opportunities, because what are they giving us opportunities for? We also keep hearing people say, let’s not go back to the old normal, like let’s go to the new normal. But we have to stop talking about normal. [01:45:05]We don’t want to get back to normal because just being better than it is now shouldn’t be enough. As a black person, the old normal meant my life was expendable. [11.1s] The new normal? The normal in COVID where black people are dying, where black people are not. You know, this virus that’s supposed to keep everybody inside. Isn’t keeping us from getting shot. And so I know my wife is also expendable when I go outside and I breathe the air and I’m in the neighborhood with the most active oil drilling sites. I know who is expendable. And so [01:45:39]if we’re going to do sustainability work, if we’re going to do climate work, if we are going to fight for this world to keep us all here and to thrive for future generations, we can’t do it without equity. We can’t do it without centering people who we have historically said are expendable because they’re not. [17.8s]


Alex Bozicovic [01:46:03] Thank you. That’s a wonderful way, I think, to tie up what we’ve been talking about Tamika, and to make it clear what the stakes are for any of us who weren’t aware of those things. And as I gather my notes, you mentioned that COVID has made certain things very clear, you know, and sitting where I do in a city and in a country where some people like to assert that there is no such thing as racism. We have seen the maps of where people are getting COVID and where people are dying of COVID. And those maps, those dark spots on the map correspond very closely to low income neighborhoods and neighborhoods where people of color live. And specifically where black people live. And the same has been true in Montreal as well. So I think it’s as you say, we need to as a society or as our societies, we need to figure out what an adequate response to that reality is. But it’s more difficult now, perhaps, to assert that it doesn’t exist or that we we are able to see it.


Alex Bozicovic [01:47:08] La race a donc été un facteur dans des choses qui sont censées être publiques. Droit? Race, c'est ce que vous nous dites. Et peut-être que ce n'est pas toujours évident pour certaines personnes. Peut-être que la ségrégation est une histoire oubliée, mais pas pour vous, pas pour les gens qui doivent vivre avec les conséquences, qui n'ont pas ce privilège.


Alex Bozicovic [01:47:27] Je veux donc lancer une discussion en m'appuyant sur cela.


Alex Bozicovic [01:47:32] Vous savez, nous parlons maintenant d'atténuation du changement climatique, un ensemble de problèmes très complexes et très variés, qui, vous savez, comme nous l'avons établi, n'affecteront pas les gens de la même manière. Alors, par où devrions-nous commencer à créer un espace courageux pour aborder ces problèmes de manière équitable? Et comment faire de la consultation communautaire et comment faire de la politique d'une manière qui ne privilégie pas les voix qui ont déjà été privilégiées? Voulez-vous commencer avec ça ou avec quelqu'un d'autre?


Tamika Butler [01:48:06] Je suis heureux de commencer. Donc, oui, je pense que la création de ces espaces courageux est importante et les gens doivent se rendre compte que ce travail doit se faire à la fois au niveau personnel et au niveau systémique. Et donc, oui, nous avons des politiques, des institutions et des gouvernements qui sont injustes, mais ces institutions et politiques sont élaborées par des personnes. Et donc je pense qu'une partie de la création de ce bref espace doit commencer au niveau individuel. Et il faut commencer par que les gens se rendent compte qu'il y a une différence entre être un allié et être complice et même en dessous, être un acteur. Franchement, je pense que beaucoup d'entre nous sont des acteurs et que de nouvelles choses se produisent au fur et à mesure que nous apprenons de nouvelles choses. Nous sommes comme, OK, je peux le faire. Et donc vous utilisez le pronom que quelqu'un vous a demandé d'utiliser ou vous faites ceci ou cela. Parlez-vous d'équité dans votre type de plan parce que quelqu'un vous a dit que vous devriez et que vous savez que vous devriez. Mais si vous ne faites que jouer les rôles et que vous ne les intégrez pas vraiment dans qui vous êtes, dans la façon dont vous abordez le travail, dans ce que vous faites, vous serez découvert. Je pense que les alliés sont ceux qui se rendent compte qu'être un allié est un verbe. Et vous devez donc faire quelque chose.

Et donc, quel travail faites-vous réellement pour, vous savez, faire avancer l'équité? Et c'est là que le courage commence. Je pense qu'être complice signifie que vous êtes prêt à perdre quelque chose et parfois que votre pouvoir. Et donc la différence entre un allié et un complice est qu'un allié pourrait amener la personne de couleur à déjeuner. Et donc j'apprécie vraiment que vous ayez pris la parole lors de cette réunion. C'était génial. Je suis d'accord avec tout ce que vous avez dit. Le complice prend la parole lors de la rencontre avec cette personne. Le complice prend la parole avant que cette personne ne doive le faire. Le complice. ne laisse pas seulement aux seules personnes de couleur du panel le soin de parler de ces problèmes. Droit. Et donc ce sont les choses où vous commencez à créer un espace courageux avec votre propre personnel. Et puis nous devons intégrer cela dans la systématique.


Alex Bozicovic [01:49:58] Et quoi d'autre? Comment pouvons-nous en tant qu'acteurs sociaux et en tant qu'acteurs politiques? C'est vraiment ce dont nous devons parler ici. Comment devenir des complices de manière productive et de manière à résoudre le problème des grands et complexes problèmes auxquels nos sociétés sont aujourd'hui confrontées à cause du climat?


Julian Agyeman [01:50:21] Eh bien, Alex, puis-je revenir sur mon point? Cette consommation compétitive est liée à l'empreinte carbone et que les sociétés de plus en plus inégales ont une empreinte carbone plus élevée. Le changement climatique et les solutions, je pense, consistent à encadrer tous les types de solutions que j'entends sans cesse: le transport durable, l'agriculture durable, les bâtiments verts. Oui, cela fait partie de la solution. Mais nous devons vraiment nous mettre d’accord sur l’un des principaux moteurs, à savoir l’inégalité. Comment penserions-nous différemment le changement climatique si nous acceptions A la science et ensuite B, la science sociale que ce sont les inégalités qui sont l'un des principaux moteurs du changement climatique? En quoi notre activisme serait-il différent? Maintenant, nous avons réussi à changer le cadre à certains égards, du changement climatique à la justice climatique. Ce cadre centre l'inégalité. Il se concentre sur les personnes qui sont les premières et les plus touchées et qui ont souvent le moins d'influence sur notre empreinte carbone.

Nous devons changer le cadre de la science et de l’économie. Nous en avons encore besoin. Nous avons encore besoin, vous savez, du bon travail de détective de Jeff pour, vous savez, démêler et nous montrer graphiquement ce qui se passe. Mais nous devons vraiment réfléchir aux causes fondamentales. Et le principal moteur, l'un des principaux moteurs est l'inégalité. Qu'est-ce que cela signifie, Bill McKibben? Dites-moi, qu'est-ce que cela signifie et comment devrions-nous recadrer l'action climatique? Maintenant, permettez-moi de terminer en disant que lorsque nous avons changé à l'Université Tufts, lorsque nous avons changé le cadre du changement climatique à la justice climatique, nous avons impliqué un groupe d'étudiants beaucoup plus diversifié. Une fois, les étudiants ont vu que c'était une question de justice. Cela a amené une toute nouvelle gamme de personnes, pas seulement les techniciens, les économistes, les écologistes, le mouvement du changement climatique en grande partie blanc, mais cela a attiré beaucoup d'étudiants en couleur. Et je vois cela avec le cadre de la justice climatique qui, je pense, vous savez, qui, je pense, offre un espace, un espace courageux pour que nous puissions commencer à réfléchir à des stratégies qui intègrent cette notion d'inégalité.


Alex Bozicovic [01:52:49] Non seulement le niveau de la mer monte et nous allons avoir des conditions météorologiques plus extrêmes. Mais aussi, pourquoi certains quartiers n'ont-ils pas d'arbres de rue? Pourquoi la qualité de l'air est-elle si mauvaise dans certains quartiers? Pourquoi y a-t-il une production de pétrole dans certains quartiers de mon quartier et pas dans les quartiers d'autres personnes? Et ce sont là des problèmes climatiques ou ceux-ci font partie de la même conversation.


Katherine Peinhardt [01:53:14] Je pense que quelque chose qui m'a frappé, en particulier lors de la présentation de Tamika, qui était excellente, était le concept d'écoute profonde et de travail avec les gens, comme étudier le paysage de ce qui existe déjà dans une communauté. Donc, travailler avec ces institutions et organisations d'ancrage comme Tamika a mentionné est très important pour cela, jeter les bases. Et que vous travailliez dans une organisation à but non lucratif, que vous soyez quelqu'un qui souhaite simplement s'impliquer dans votre quartier ou que vous soyez quelqu'un qui travaille pour la ville afin de se mettre à l'écoute de ce paysage qui existe déjà de personnes qui mettent dans le travail ou des personnes qui ont vécu des expériences que vous devez écouter et qui, à mon avis, constituent un très bon point de départ et un point de départ nécessaire qui est souvent négligé parce que c'est un travail difficile pour vous devez vraiment faire la recherche et y consacrer du temps pour découvrir les choses que les gens veulent vous dire. Vous devez vous le dire.


Alex Bozicovic [01:54:11] Intéressant, cependant, je vois une tension là-bas, parce que dans le monde de la planification, et s'il vous plaît n'hésitez pas à me corriger ou à m'interrompre, Julian ou Jeff en particulier, les voix de la communauté ne sont pas toujours des voix pour le changement. En fait, ce ne sont très souvent pas des voix pour le changement, vous savez, et dans les endroits où il y a beaucoup d'inégalités, y compris en Californie, vous savez, certaines voix de la communauté et certains gouvernements locaux sont très puissants pour s'opposer aux types de changement qui répondrait en fait à certains des problèmes dont nous parlons aujourd'hui. Alors, vous savez, comment lutter contre cela, comment attirer plus de gens? Il y a une question de faire venir plus de personnes dans la salle ou différentes personnes dans la salle, des processus différents, comme vous faisiez allusion, Tamika. Comment abordez-vous ce problème fondamental?


Julian Agyeman [01:55:02] Eh bien, personne ne va y aller, je vais y aller. Nous avons besoin d'une profession d'urbaniste qui ressemble aux communautés avec lesquelles ils planifient, point final. Nous avons besoin d'une profession de design urbain qui ressemble aux communautés dans lesquelles elles planifient, avec et pour lesquelles elles planifient. Nous avons besoin de cette idée de coproduction ou dans l'un des cas où on m'avait donné plus de temps pour parler, j'aurais acheté l'idée d'ethnographies profondes, ce qui est vraiment lié au point d'écoute profond que Tamika a si bien fait. La plupart des urbanistes conçoivent des charrettes dans lesquelles la communauté est invitée à donner des idées sur quelque chose qui est vraiment déjà décidé. Soyons brutalement francs. Je pense que des notions ethnographiques profondes de la communauté seraient utiles. Donc, si nous avions un service de planification qui ressemblait avant tout à la communauté et coproduit avec les communautés une compréhension ethnographique approfondie de ces communautés, ce qui nécessite une écoute approfondie, je pense que nous serions dans un bien meilleur endroit. Mais pour le moment, nous avons généralement un métier d'urbaniste, un métier d'urbaniste, un métier de résilience climatique qui ne ressemble vraiment pas à des communautés. Et tout comme 93% des policiers de Minneapolis sont littéralement transportés par bus pour surveiller le centre-ville. Cela ne marche pas. Nous avons besoin d'une représentation politique. [01:56:26] Je dois dire qu'ici à Boston, où nous ne sommes absolument pas parfaits, mais il y a une exigence de résidence pour les enseignants et la police. Il faut vivre en ville pour faire la police ou enseigner en ville. Cela doit être une première étape, nous avons besoin de planificateurs culturellement compétents ou du moins culturellement humbles qui ressemblent à la communauté, qui comprennent les besoins de la communauté [22.4s] et termineront sur un point. On parle de plantation d'arbres dans les quartiers à faible revenu. Un de mes anciens étudiants travaille ou a travaillé à Providence, Rhode Island, où ils ont décidé de mettre des arbres dans les quartiers à faible revenu comme stratégie de résilience climatique, stratégie d'adaptation au climat. Bonne idée. La communauté locale a été indignée. Vous ne nous avez pas consultés, ces espèces d'arbres dégoulinent de la sève sur nos voitures. Nous ne voulons pas de ça. ET cetera, et cetera. Un grand nombre de communautés, je pense que pour moi et dont j'ai parlé, ont été abandonnées, bordées de rouge, battues à cause de leur culture, de leur appartenance ethnique, du groupe racial. [01:57:32] Ces communautés ont besoin de réconciliation. Ils doivent d'abord être reconnus. Et puis nous avons besoin d'une forme de justice réparatrice et de processus de réconciliation avec ces communautés. Ce n'est pas aussi simple que de dire que vous avez besoin d'une ferme urbaine, vous avez besoin d'arbres. Cela ne fonctionne plus. Les futurs coproduits, je pense, sont la voie à suivre. [21.2s]


Alex Bozicovic [01:57:55] Génial. Oh, continuez.


Tamika Butler [01:57:57] Je suis tout à fait d'accord, je pense qu'une partie de cela commence par qui fait le travail. L'exemple que je donne toujours est lors d'un cocktail auquel beaucoup d'entre nous sont allés avec des tables hautes, n'est-ce pas, et nous nous asseyons tous et discutons aux tables hautes. Eh bien, quand la personne entre en fauteuil roulant et qu'elle essaie de faire partie de la conversation, mais elle ne peut pas faire partie de la conversation parce que toutes les tables sont des tables hautes, vous savez, tout d'un coup les gens sont comme, oh, mon Dieu, oh, mon Dieu. Et si vous ne pensez pas à ces choses depuis le début. Et oui, oui. Serait-il utile que quelqu'un du comité de planification de votre cocktail soit une personne handicapée, peut-être? Oui. Ils devraient faire partie de votre comité directeur, sans aucun doute. Mais ce n'est pas seulement leur travail de soulever ces questions. Droit. Et donc je pense que nous devons faire les deux. Je pense que nous devons nous assurer de diversifier les personnes qui font ce travail. Du climat à la planification, en passant par le transport et la santé publique. Nous avons besoin de plus de diversité. Mais ensuite, je pense qu'il faut aussi que nous ayons tous ce fardeau de changer la façon dont nous faisons les choses. Et puis je pense que nous devons aussi réaliser que la diversité pour la diversité n'est pas suffisante. Vous ne pouvez pas simplement avoir divers visages assis autour de la table s'ils ne font pas partie du pouvoir décisionnel. Ils doivent donc être en mesure de façonner la culture pour prendre des décisions, car souvent, lorsque nous embauchons et que nous réfléchissons à des choses, nous pensons à d'autres personnes que nous connaissons, qui nous pourrions faire appel, qui, nous le savons, pourraient frapper. le sol en marche. Et Robin D'Angelo, qui a écrit le livre «White Fragility» dans ses discours publics, elle montre souvent une photo d'un mariage et montre une photo d'un enterrement. Et il s'agit de Blancs entourés de Blancs.

Droit. Et c'est à ça qu'on ne pense pas à ça, tu sais, dit-elle du berceau à la tombe. Aimer. Droit. Elle est comme, quand tu es née, à qui appartenait l'hôpital? De quelle race était le médecin? Droit. Toutes ces choses, nous ne pensons pas à la blancheur, et surtout si nous sommes blancs. Et donc je pense que c'est une de ces choses où nous avons besoin que tout le monde fasse le changement alors que nous continuons à nous diversifier et que nous devons aussi rencontrer les gens là où ils sont. Nous ne pouvons pas être surpris que ce ne soient que les NIMBY qui se présentent à nos réunions et à nos places régulières aux heures régulières. Mais si vous montez chez nous, si vous avez une question sur les transports en commun, pourquoi avez-vous une réunion au centre-ville?

Montez dans le bus. Montez dans le bus et parlez aux gens dans le bus. Droit. Il ne s'agit donc que de petits changements comme celui-là et de la façon dont nous faisons les choses.


Alex Bozicovic [02:00:22] Ouais. Mon amie et collègue Cheryl Case, qui est planificatrice ici à Toronto, a fait un travail vraiment novateur en matière de consultation communautaire. Et elle essaie de parler à des personnes qui normalement ne se rendraient pas aux réunions de consultation en allant à leur rencontre et en contactant consciemment un groupe plus diversifié. Et les réponses qu'elle a obtenues aux mêmes questions ont été très, très différentes. Et même sur les questions de développement, moins NIMBY que ce à quoi vous vous attendez. C'est donc vraiment intéressant. Je vais arrêter de parler, sauf pour me soucier de certaines questions du public. N'hésitez pas. À propos, tout le monde écoute pour ajouter vos questions dans le chat. Essayez de vous en trouver quelques-uns avant de conclure ce premier. Cela me semble un gros problème. Comment les panélistes recommanderiez-vous que les employés municipaux influencent les décideurs pour qu'ils voient ces questions d'iniquité et le lien entre l'espace urbain et les disparités raciales comme des problèmes à régler? Alors, comment les planificateurs, les fonctionnaires municipaux, comment parlez-vous aux politiciens et les incitez-vous à s'engager?


Julian Agyeman [02:01:30] Jeff. Tu n'as rien dit, tu veux dire quelque chose?


Jeff Goodell [02:01:31] Très bien. D'accord. D'accord. Je vais je vais. Je vais le prendre. Je commencerai par dire que je suis journaliste, que je ne suis pas un activiste politique. Et donc j'arrive à ces questions un peu différemment. Vous savez, je ne pense pas à comment m'organiser. Je réfléchis à la façon de dire la vérité et de raconter des histoires que les gens écoutent. Et pour revenir un peu à ce que nous disions auparavant, cette implication et leadership communautaires. Et je pense que, vous savez, j'écris sur le changement climatique depuis longtemps et [02:02:07] cet élargissement de la discussion sur ce que signifie le changement climatique, comment nous allons reconstruire notre monde pour inclure ces idées sur la race et l'équité et tout cela, la justice, est de loin la chose la plus encourageante qui se soit produite dans le mouvement climatique en 20 ans. [17.8s] Et à un certain niveau, cela a toujours fait partie de la conversation au plus haut niveau que lors des réunions du GIEC et autres. Il s'agit de ce que le monde développé doit au monde en développement? Comment mettre en place un fonds vert pour le climat? Comment pouvons-nous aider d'autres pays riches à aider, vous savez, l'Afrique ou l'Asie du Sud-Est ou des endroits à sauter avec les nouvelles technologies? Que, quoi, qu'est-ce que nous devons aux îles Marshall dans l'Ouest? Qui sont, vous savez, non seulement confrontés à la perte de biens immobiliers, mais à l'extinction, à l'extinction culturelle. Alors, voyez cette partie de la conversation quotidienne et une partie de la conversation au niveau du sol sur ce que nous allons faire à propos de la crise climatique est tellement inspirante. Je veux juste dire une chose sur une communauté. La question qu'Alex a soulevée est l'une des choses que je vois est, vous savez, comme c'est un peu comme avec les parallèles COVID, vous pensez que, oh, deux cent mille personnes aux États-Unis sont maintenant mortes. Un million de personnes dans le monde sont mortes. Vous pensez, oh, nous allons devenir intelligents à ce sujet maintenant parce que nous savons que c'est réel et que cela se produit. En fait, ce n'est pas le cas, non? Ce n'est pas comme ça aux États-Unis. Nous nous améliorons pour accepter le désordre et tout. Et le genre de réalité concrète de celui-ci ne correspond pas vraiment. C'est en quelque sorte une compréhension plus profonde et une action politique de cela. En fait, il mobilise des forces contre lui d'une certaine manière. Et je vois un peu la même chose avec le changement climatique et surtout l'élévation du niveau de la mer. J'ai donc mentionné que pour de nombreuses collectivités côtières, la préoccupation est la perte de revenus et de développement. Et ce que je vois, c'est que, comme dans des endroits comme la Virginie, par exemple, [02:04:18] alors que ces communautés ont plus de problèmes, au lieu d'élever les normes de construction et de construire de manière plus résiliente et en moins dangereuse, ils encouragent plus de construction dans des endroits plus marginaux parce qu'ils veulent désespérément maintenir le moteur du bâtiment en marche. [18.1s] Et c'est en quelque sorte d'une manière étrange, le changement climatique et l'élévation du niveau de la mer et des choses comme celle-ci ont été inversées, ont inversé l'élan [02:04:46]. Et afin d'empêcher désespérément les gens de quitter ces endroits bientôt inondés, ils encouragent le développement bon marché sous le couvert de logements abordables. [11.0s] Mais en fait, mettre plus de gens en danger. Je pense donc que c'est une dynamique très complexe qui se passe que je vois de mon point de vue en tant que journaliste et ce genre d'élargissement de la discussion et d'en faire plus que juste d'où vient l'eau, mais qui est à risque et qui va souffrir de la chaleur, de la justice et des problèmes raciaux dont nous parlons. Je pense que c'est comme ça, et c'est ce qui m'inspire en tant qu'étranger, en regardant le mouvement politique et en voyant comment il a changé la dynamique. Je pense que c'est, vous savez, un moment incroyablement inspirant.


Julian Agyeman [02:05:43] Puis-je juste dire, Alex? Je pense qu'il y a trois niveaux de réponse à votre question. Tout d'abord, nous avons besoin d'un leadership visionnaire. Et je suis vraiment heureux de dire que


Michelle Wu, une femme d'origine asiatique et américaine, est en passe de devenir, je pense, la prochaine maire de Boston, une femme de couleur, une démocrate progressiste. Elle a conçu un fabuleux nouvel accord vert pour Boston. Une grande partie est liée à l'équité et à la résilience climatique. Elle inspire une toute nouvelle génération de réflexion. Et elle comprend. Nous avons besoin de leaders pour l'obtenir. Le niveau suivant. Oh, et aussi, elle envisage de démanteler la Boston Planning and Development Authority, qui est essentiellement une branche du maire. Et elle créerait une résonance beaucoup plus communautaire et un processus de planification centré sur la communauté pour Boston, qui, encore une fois, intégrerait l'équité. Le deuxième niveau est le niveau dans lequel j'entre. Nous avons le Tuft sans vergogne. Nous formons des militants, des planificateurs. Je ne veux pas que mes élèves sortent et qu'ils approuvent simplement les ordonnances de zonage et les changements. Je veux qu'ils soient en mesure de pousser les services de planification dans lesquels ils travaillent à devenir beaucoup plus à l'écoute, beaucoup plus susceptibles de penser à des ethnographies profondes des quartiers et de comprendre les quartiers et de coproduire les quartiers avec les communautés. Et au troisième niveau, je pense que nous devons vraiment reconnaître les communautés comme des experts dans leurs zones locales. Donc des communautés, des planificateurs activistes, des leaders visionnaires. C'est ce dont je pense que nous avons besoin pour commencer à apporter des changements.


Katherine Peinhardt [02:07:39] Pour donner suite à quelque chose que quelqu'un vient de dire dans la barre de discussion. Ceux qui détiennent le pouvoir ne souhaitent pas y renoncer, non? C'est une maxime assez bien établie. [02:07:50] Je pense qu'il faut faire valoir le fait que la sagesse communautaire est une ressource à exploiter. Et ce sont les solutions qui sont souvent imposées aux communautés sont moins efficaces, [13.6s] comme nous l'avons vu dans la présentation de Jeff, que les projets qui pourraient être davantage axés sur une vision communautaire. Donc, convaincre les gens de la valeur des idées des résidents, des visiteurs, des organisations communautaires ancrées comme l'a dit Tamika, et [02:08:22] de le faire sans les marquer. Et tout en récompensant équitablement les gens pour leur travail et leurs idées, je pense que cela devient très clair à mesure que les communautés le font de plus en plus souvent. [11.6s] Mais oui, nous devons continuer à insister sur le fait que cela en vaut la peine. Et cela rend vos solutions plus intelligentes et plus durables.


Alex Bozicovic [02:08:43] Il y a eu quelques questions à ce sujet. Il y a des gens qui se demandent comment vous mesurez cela. Y a-t-il une, vous savez, inclusivité, vous savez, métrique? Existe-t-il un moyen de mesurer le retour sur investissement d'une activité et d'une diversité accrues, de l'inclusion et de la diversité? Comment répondriez-vous à cela, mes amis?


Tamika Butler [02:09:00] Comment faites-vous des gens qui veulent bien faire valoir leurs arguments auprès des gens pour lesquels ils travaillent? Qu'il est important et précieux de penser de cette manière?


Tamika Butler [02:09:12] J'avais l'habitude de travailler dans une organisation à but non lucratif. J'ai dirigé une organisation à but non lucratif, une organisation à but non lucratif de plusieurs millions de dollars qui a construit des parcs et des jardins dans des communautés à faible revenu et des communautés de couleur. Et bon nombre des parcelles de terrain sur lesquelles nous avons bâti avaient une tonne de problèmes environnementaux. Droit. Et quelque chose que je disais toujours à mon personnel, en particulier à mon personnel blanc, qui allait parfois dans ces communautés de couleur. Et, vous savez, notre objectif était de construire un parc. Et donc, quand la communauté demandait ceci, cela ou l'autre, elle répondait, oui, oui, oui. Et la raison pour laquelle les gens s'opposent souvent à l'équité est que cela prend plus de temps. Cela prend plus de temps. C'est incertain et franchement, c'est inconfortable. Et ce que je dirais toujours à mon personnel, c'est quand vous dites oui à tout le monde, car c'est ce que vous pensez que les personnes à faible revenu et les personnes de couleur veulent. Quand nous devons revenir en arrière et dire non, c'est en fait plus difficile. Cela prend plus d'argent et cela prend plus de temps. Et donc je pense que quelque chose que les gens doivent comprendre avec équité en est tellement. Lorsque j'en ai parlé dans le plan, une partie de notre équité était procédurale. Il s'agit du processus que vous utilisez. Et cela ne signifie pas simplement dire oui et donner aux gens ce qu'ils veulent. Il s'agit d'être transparent et honnête, de rendre des comptes et de dire non, nous ne pouvons pas faire ceci et non, nous ne pouvons pas faire cela.


Tamika Butler [02:10:29] Et je pense que l'autre chose que je voulais dire, juste à propos de la dernière question, je pense que l'autre chose que nous devons faire est que nous devons tous commencer à prendre cela personnellement. Droit. Nous devons tous commencer à prendre ce qui se passe dans notre monde, que nous parlions ou non de justice raciale ou de justice climatique personnellement. Quelqu'un m'a dit l'autre jour, c'est la journée la plus chaude que nous ayons jamais eue en Californie. Et quelqu'un a répondu et a dit, c'est la journée la plus froide que nous aurons en Californie pour les prochaines années. Droit. Par exemple, nous devons commencer à changer la façon dont nous pensons à cela et à le prendre personnellement. Et une grande partie de cela est le privilège, que vous soyez enseignant ou non, que vous soyez professeur ou non, que vous soyez journaliste ou non, que vous travailliez ou non dans une organisation à but non lucratif. Je pense que ce que les gens qui ne font pas partie de groupes racialisés doivent réaliser, c'est qu'il y a ceux d'entre nous qui ne se considèrent pas comme des militants ou qui ne se considèrent pas comme des guerriers de la justice raciale. Mais à cause de la couleur de notre peau, nous n'avons pas le choix. Nous n'avons pas ce privilège. Donc, quand vous êtes un journaliste qui couvre quelque chose à Minneapolis ou à Atlanta et que la police vous bat, vous ou la femme qui vient d'être battue ici à LA parce que vous êtes une personne de couleur, n'est-ce pas? Et donc je pense que nous devons tous trouver comment faire notre travail et le faire objectivement et bien le faire et partager et pousser pour le changement que nous voulons. Mais ceux d'entre nous qui ont le privilège de réaliser que ce n'est pas que parfois nous n'avons pas à le personnaliser, vous devez réaliser que ce sont là ceux d'entre nous qui n'ont pas le choix. C'est ça. Comme on ne peut pas dire, eh bien, c'est du travail. Et puis dans mon parcours personnel, je lis tous ces livres. Droit. Et donc je pense que nous devons tous profiter de ce moment et prendre conscience de l'urgence, à la fois du changement climatique et des injustices raciales. Et nous devons déterminer si nous avons le privilège là où nous n'avons pas toujours à le mettre. Nous devons penser à ces gens qui ne peuvent pas l'enlever. Et nous devons le rendre profondément personnel.


Alex Bozicovic [02:12:16] Plus facile à dire qu'à faire dans beaucoup d'arènes politiques, j'en suis sûr. Et pourtant absolument nécessaire. Mais une autre question du public sur une sorte de sur cette note. La question est de savoir comment inclure les voix de la désobéissance civile ou de la protestation dans les processus de planification urbaine? N'importe qui?


Julian Agyeman [02:12:43] C'est une très bonne question. Une très, très bonne question à laquelle j'aime beaucoup réfléchir. Mais bon, laissez-moi juste ajouter quelques idées. Je pense que cela correspond à ce que Tamika disait de passer d'allié à complice. Les alliés ont apposé des pancartes Black Lives Matter sur leur pelouse avant, sur leur pelouse bien entretenue dans le quartier embourgeoisé où ils ont acheté cette maison à une famille qui, vous savez, a été déplacée. Un complice, vous savez, attrape la colère et rejoint la ligne de front de la manifestation. Et je pense que cette colère entre en jeu. Je la ressens certainement à travers mes élèves. De plus en plus d'étudiants. Je veux dire, personne n'entre dans l'urbanisme pour être passif. [02:13:41] Les gens entrent dans l'urbanisme parce qu'ils veulent faire de bonnes choses en public. [4.2s] La question est, comment pouvons-nous les canaliser vers des utilisations créatives de ce moment, de ce moment dans lequel nous sommes maintenant? Comme plusieurs. Je pense que Jeff en a parlé. Je suis en fait assez optimiste quant au changement. Nous avons vu des choses qu'aucun être humain ne devrait jamais regarder.

Huit minutes, 46 secondes. Cela changera nos vies. Et la canalisation. C'est cette répulsion. Cette répulsion. C'est certainement quelque chose que mes étudiants veulent faire, et avec un département activiste comme le nôtre, où nous nous concentrons non pas sur la durabilité environnementale, la justice sociale et la durabilité, nous produisons des planificateurs de ce qui a «réveillé» de plusieurs façons. Je pense donc qu'il nous incombe à l'académie de planification de vraiment faire passer les étudiants et de les canaliser. Et, vous savez, la devise de notre département est d'éduquer des visionnaires pratiques, d'éduquer des visionnaires pratiques. Et ces visions sont profondément imprégnées de questions de justice sociale et d'équité.


Tamika Butler [02:14:55] Et je pense que c'est, je pense, que nous devons tous nous rendre compte que nous avons un rôle à jouer. Il y a tellement de façons de résister. Vous n'êtes pas obligé d'être dans la rue. Vous n'êtes pas obligé d'avoir un certain nom, des antécédents ou un emploi. Il y a de nombreux actes de résistance et nous devons tous faire ce qui nous semble juste. Et nous devons tous faire ce que nous pouvons pour élever ces voix. Et puis je pense que la dernière chose que je dirais est, écoutez, nous avons commencé par en parler, non? Écoutez profondément. [02:15:24] Et je pense que trop souvent nous aimons contrôler la façon dont les gens font les choses. Donc, que ce soit à genoux ou non à un match de sport, que ce soit ou non en train de marcher dans les rues. Nous aimons dire, eh bien, s'ils le faisaient différemment, ils feraient un meilleur point. Mais au lieu de penser à la façon dont les gens font les choses, si nous pouvions écouter ce qu'ils disent, [19.9s], alors cette écoute profonde est la façon dont vous pouvez commencer à incorporer une partie de ce qui se passe socialement dans notre travail.


Alex Bozicovic [02:15:54] Et puis, vous savez, nous devrons conclure. Mais, vous savez, une chose me semble être une tension difficile à résoudre. Vous savez, si Jeff a raison, comme je pense qu'il est probablement, que nous allons assister à une migration à grande échelle de beaucoup d'endroits moins privilégiés vers nos sociétés plus riches et vers les parties de nos sociétés qui sont moins touchées par changement climatique. Cela représentera beaucoup de changements dans nos villes et dans les parties les plus privilégiées de nos villes que les gens peuvent ou non accueillir. Et donc, vous savez, il faut peut-être qu'il y ait un moyen d'essayer de se réconcilier à l'écoute des gens qui sont déjà là et qui n'ont pas été écoutés tout en réfléchissant aux défis à grande échelle que le changement climatique nous pose à tous. Et les façons dont il peut remodeler notre monde entier. Alors bonne chance, planificateurs. S'amuser. Tout le monde, merci beaucoup pour cela. Ce fut une matinée fascinante. Une discussion. Cela a été mon privilège d'être ici. Merci.


Julian Agyeman [02:16:54] Alex, puis-je dire une chose?


Alex Bozicovic [02:16:55] Ouais.


Julian Agyeman [02:16:57] À quel point ce panel aurait-il été différent si Tamika et moi n'avions pas été ici. C'était peut-être une conversation très différente, pas celle de Katherine ou de Jeff. Vous savez, il y a quelque chose qui cloche avec eux. Mais pour moi, la présence de Tamika et moi-même à ce panel a permis de garantir qu'une conversation se résume vraiment à des questions de fond, et je tiens à remercier l'Institut urbain du Canada et les gens d'Halifax pour cela. Mais à l'avenir, lorsque vous allez à des conférences comme celle-ci, essayez de poser des questions sur qui prend la parole à la conférence, car je pense que c'est vraiment important.


Alex Bozicovic [02:17:30] Je le fais déjà maintenant. Mais je pense que vous ne pourriez pas être plus correct. Merci. Et merci à tous. Merci.


Katherine Peinhardt [02:17:39] Merci.

Audience complète
Transcription du chat

Note au lecteur: les commentaires de chat ont été modifiés pour plus de lisibilité. Le texte n'a pas été modifié pour l'orthographe ou la grammaire. Pour toute question ou préoccupation, veuillez contacter avec "Commentaires de chat" dans le sujet lin

De l'Institut urbain du Canada: Vous pouvez trouver des transcriptions et des enregistrements de nos webinaires d'aujourd'hui et de tous nos webinaires à

09:02:51 De l'Institut urbain du Canada: Merci d'avoir participé à la conférence Art of City Building d'aujourd'hui! Nous espérons que vous appréciez le programme. Veuillez suivre sur Twitter et Instagram @ AoCB2020 et Facebook
09:03:04 De l'Institut urbain canadien: Les conversations seront enregistrées sur et Art of City Building sur YouTube. Merci de partager vos observations et vos apprentissages - nous célébrons l'engagement! #aocb2020
09:03:21 De Sakshi Nanda: Bonjour de Mumbai!
09:03:36 De l'Institut urbain du Canada: Poursuivez la conversation #AoCB2020 @ AoCB2020
09:04:00 De l'Institut urbain du Canada: Bienvenue! Mes amis, veuillez modifier vos paramètres de chat sur «tous les panélistes et participants» afin que tout le monde puisse voir vos commentaires.
09:04:08 De Nufida Pujiastuti: Bonjour d'Indonésie 🇮🇩
09:04:23 De Toby Greenbaum: Bonjour d'Ottawa
09:04:32 De Sandro Pampallona: Bonjour d'Italie
09:04:58 De Ken Kunka à tous les panélistes: Bonjour de Summerland, C.-B.
09:05:00 De Jerrica Gilbert: Salut de Sault Ste Marie 🙂
09:05:03 De Max Brookman à tous les panélistes: Bonjour et bon après-midi de Londres
09:05:18 De Corrine Cash à tous les panélistes: Bonjour à tous, je suis le Dr Corrine Cash. Je dirige le travail de création de communautés résilientes à l'Institut Coady à Antigonish et je suis professeur adjoint au programme sur le climat et l'environnement à l'Université St FX. Je suis également planificateur (maîtrise et doctorat en planification de l'Université de Waterloo). Contactez-moi à
09:05:29 De Moira Davidson à tous les panélistes: bonjour de Guelph
09:05:46 De l'Institut urbain du Canada: Bienvenue! Mes amis, veuillez modifier vos paramètres de chat sur «tous les panélistes et participants» afin que tout le monde puisse voir vos commentaires.
09:05:56 De Annalisa Raymer à tous les panélistes: @Canadian Urban Inst - Des enregistrements des séances seront-ils disponibles?
09:06:13 De Corrine Cash: Bonjour à tous, je suis le Dr Corrine Cash. Je dirige le travail de création de communautés résilientes à l'Institut Coady à Antigonish, en Nouvelle-Écosse, au Canada et je suis professeur adjoint au programme sur le climat et l'environnement à l'Université St FX. Je suis également planificateur (maîtrise et doctorat en planification de l'Université de Waterloo). Contactez-moi à
09:06:14 De Bill Campbell: Bienvenue à Halifax. Félicitations au groupe organisateur pour avoir rassemblé ces présentateurs éclairés.
09:06:15 De Susan Chin: Salutations de NYC / CT.!
09:06:18 De l'Institut urbain canadien à Annalisa Raymer et à tous les panélistes: Oui - à la fois à l'AOCB et à Canurb
09:06:27 De Kate Gunn à tous les panélistes: salutations à tous d'Edmonton Alberta!
09:06:28 De TJ Maguire, AoCB: Bonjour de Halifax!
09:06:35 De Meghan Hollett à tous les panélistes: Merci pour l'enregistrement! En espérant que cet enregistrement sera mis en ligne ultérieurement.
09:06:36 De Mary Rowe: J'attends avec impatience le maire Savage!
09:06:43 De Sakshi Nanda: Bonsoir de Mumbai!
09:06:45 De Marie-Josée Houle à tous les panélistes: Salutations d'Ottawa!
09:06:51 d'Annalisa Raymer: salutations d'Ithaca, NY
09:06:52 De reg nalezyty: bonjour de Thunder Bay
09:06:54 De Grant Ruffinengo à tous les panélistes: Bonjour d'Halifax 🙂
09:06:54 De Julian Agyeman à tous les panélistes: Salut de Boston!
09:07:06 De Angie Desmarais à tous les panélistes: Bonjour de Port Colborne, Ontario
09:07:19 De Mary Rowe à tous les panélistes: J'ADORE le look de la photo avec l'écran en direct derrière - très cool!
09:07:22 D'Alex Smith à tous les panélistes: Bonjour de Eastern Passage
09:08:22 De l'Institut urbain du Canada: Rappelez aux participants de changer vos paramètres de chat sur «tous les panélistes et participants» afin que tout le monde puisse voir vos commentaires.
09:08:54 De Purshottama Reddy à tous les panélistes: Dans l'attente de cette conférence très intéressante et d'actualité - du Canada et de l'Afrique du Sud.
09:08:59 De l'Institut urbain du Canada: Alex Bozicovic Jeff Goodell Katherine Peinhardt Julian Agyeman https: // twitter .com / julianagyeman Tamika Butler
09:09:03 De Annalisa Raymer: @Canadian Urban Inst - Des enregistrements des séances seront-ils disponibles?
09:09:24 De Beverley Bradnam à tous les panélistes: Bonjour de la ville de Fort Erie, sur les rives du lac Érié et à l'embouchure de la rivière Niagara
09:09:24 De l'Institut urbain canadien à Annalisa Raymer et à tous les panélistes: oui. Publiera les détails des liens vers la fin de la session
09:09:25 De Amy Bolt: Bonjour du Centre de transformation du logement communautaire! Consultez notre site Web ( pour connaître les possibilités de financement pour aider votre organisation à transformer le logement communautaire en un secteur plus durable. N'hésitez pas à me contacter:
09:10:02 De Annalisa Raymer: @Canadian Urban Inst - Merci!
09:11:37 De Purshottama Reddy: Des articles seront-ils disponibles?. Merci
09:12:12 De l'Institut urbain canadien à Tara Wickwire, AoCB (en privé): Hé, Tara! Je pense que lors de la prochaine session de l'après-midi, je vais vous laisser parcourir le calendrier de la session et le passage d'un orateur à l'autre, puis je parlerai simplement de la technologie - est-ce que cela vous convient?
09:12:25 De l'Institut urbain canadien à Tara Wickwire, AoCB (en privé): Ça va très bien jusqu'ici! Excellente ouverture!
09:12:47 De Selena Zhang, CUI à tous les panélistes: Salut les panélistes - juste pour clarifier, quand ce sera à votre tour de parler, vous serez responsable d'activer votre vidéo et de réactiver le son. De même, lorsque vous avez terminé, vous désactivez votre vidéo et désactivez le son.
09:12:51 De l'Institut urbain canadien à Purshottama Reddy et à tous les panélistes: Il y aura des transcriptions de l'enregistrement et de la discussion.
09:13:49 De Tara Wickwire, AoCB à l'Institut urbain du Canada (en privé): Ça a l'air bien!
09:14:29 De l'Institut urbain canadien à Selena Zhang, CUI (en privé): Merci!
09:17:23 De Grant Ruffinengo à tous les panélistes:
09:20:10 De Charles Williams à tous les panélistes: cela semble beaucoup de concret?
09:21:52 De l'Institut urbain canadien à Selena Zhang, CUI (en privé): Rappelez aux participants de changer leurs paramètres de discussion en «tous les panélistes et participants» afin que tout le monde puisse voir vos commentaires. Merci!
09:23:25 De Lester Brown à tous les panélistes: les gens connaissent-ils Sherbourne Square au pied de Sherbourne Street. Toronto. Il combine, art, terrain de jeu, parc et gestion des eaux pluviales.
09:23:51 De l'Institut urbain du Canada: rappelez aux participants de modifier leurs paramètres de discussion sur «tous les panélistes et participants» afin que tout le monde puisse voir vos commentaires. Merci!
09:26:10 De l'Institut urbain canadien à Tara Wickwire, AoCB (en privé): Hé, Tara! Vous confirmez simplement que vous ne revenez pas à la fin, n'est-ce pas? Alex va clôturer la session?
09:26:17 De l'Institut urbain canadien à Tara Wickwire, AoCB (en privé): Je vais lui envoyer une note pour confirmer.
09:26:17 De Lester Brown: Encore une fois pour tout le monde. Je crois que Sherbourne Square, au pied de Sherbourne St. Toronto, est un carré d'eau. Il a combiné un parc, avec une patinoire, de l'art, une aire de jeux et un système de gestion des tempêtes, y compris le traitement sous un bâtiment du parc.
09:27:05 De l'Institut urbain canadien à Tara Wickwire, AoCB (en privé): Je m'assurerai de vous remercier au nom de l'AOCB
09:27:14 De Alex Bozikovic: Lester: C'est vrai. Un système différent de gestion des eaux pluviales, mais oui.
09:28:17 De Sakshi Nanda à tous les panélistes: Il y a beaucoup à apprendre de Rotterdam. Merci pour cette présentation + cette initiative
09:29:48 De Maria Bravo: Salutations de Montréal
09:30:05 De Nathan Rogers: Merci Katherine! J'ai quelques trucs à emporter
09:30:28 De Chris Chopik à tous les panélistes: Katherine, Great preso. La recherche sur la conception centrée sur l'humain est un élément manquant à la fois dans la conception et dans la réponse, et j'ai apprécié l'accent que vous portez à «continuer à demander aux utilisateurs et au personnel».
09:30:34 De Alan Mcnair: Katherine:
09:30:49 De l'Institut urbain canadien à Katherine Peinhardt (en privé): Bravo !!
09:31:09 De Alan Mcnair: Excellente présentation! Merci de faire l'effort de nous éclairer!
09:31:27 De Katherine Peinhardt à l'Institut urbain du Canada (en privé): merci!
09:36:06 De Jeanette Fich Jespersen à tous les panélistes: Katherine, j'ai vraiment apprécié votre présentation. Merci.
09:38:09 De Annalisa Raymer: Merci, Katherine, pour cette excellente présentation.
09:40:51 De Niken D. Swastika: Merci Katherine pour la présentation éclairante.
09:43:05 De Corrine Cash: C'est incroyable
09:47:56 De Susan Kapetanovic-Marr à Tous les panélistes: où se trouve ce mur?
09:51:00 De Chris Chopik à tous les panélistes: #AbandoningAtlantis Quel est l'impact sur la richesse immobilière? Http: // La valeur de la propriété à l'ère du changement climatique
09:52:23 De l'Institut urbain canadien à Chris Chopik et à tous les panélistes: Salut, Chris! Pouvez-vous partager à nouveau cela et modifier vos paramètres avec tous les panélistes et participants? Je sais que d'autres personnes aimeraient consulter le lien. Merci!
09:54:20 De Zubair Ahmed: Merci d'avoir partagé l'exemple de Lagos
09:55:09 De Chris Chopik: #AbandoningAtlantis Quel est l'impact sur la richesse immobilière? Http: // Property Value in an Era of Climate Change #KeepDoingTheSameStupidShit
09:55:14 De Neelu Mehta: Excellente présentation et très informative. Merci 🙂
09:56:08 De lesley crompton à tous les panélistes: j'ai adoré la réalisation de Norfolk… tellement vrai
09:57:49 De Jacqueline Rhee: Comment pouvons-nous intégrer ces questions et discussions dans l'enseignement ordinaire? Les solutions ne viendront pas sans une large acceptation.
09:57:54 De Minaz Asani: Votre dernière question sur «qui» est la plus profonde et je suis intéressé de savoir s'il y a des pays ou des gouvernements qui travaillent vraiment là-dessus.
09:58:01 De Jeanette Fich Jespersen à Tous les panélistes: Une réflexion, mais pratique. Merci beaucoup pour cette fabuleuse conférence!
10:00:31 De Lester Brown: présentation fantastique. Merci.
10 h 40 De l'Institut urbain canadien à Jeff Goodell (en privé): Bravo! C'était parfait!
10:01:16 De Paul Mackinnon, AoCB: euh oh. Julian vient de retrousser ses manches…
10:01:59 De Jeff Goodell à l'Institut urbain du Canada (en privé): Merci! Je sais que ça a duré un peu longtemps… ..
10 h 02 h 30 De Neil Bailey: Salutations de Winnipeg! 🙂
10:02:36 De l'Institut urbain canadien à Jeff Goodell (à titre privé): Non. C'était parfait. 🙂
10:02:49 De Jeff Goodell à l'Institut urbain du Canada (en privé): Merci
10:03:57 De Purshottama Reddy: Présentations très perspicaces et d'actualité - qui nous donnent certainement matière à réflexion sur les questions de changement climatique.
10:06:06 De Rachelle Morgan à tous les panélistes: Wow, oui!
10:14:56 De Chris Chopik à tous les panélistes: Julian, questions très importantes, pouvez-vous aborder l'inclusion des Autochtones en Amérique du Nord…. #PremierPersonnesPremiersDroits
10:15:59 De Lester Brown: Je remarque qu'il est enregistré. J'ai une autre réunion à laquelle participer, mais merci pour ces excellentes présentations.
10:16:31 De Faryal Diwan: Je suis amoureux de cette conférence
10:16:52 De Faryal Diwan: si perspicace !!!
10:17:04 De Heather Majaury à tous les panélistes: Idem. Grande synthèse joignant les points.
10:17:19 De Nufida Pujiastuti: de bonnes idées de chacun des orateurs… merci session si réfléchie…
10:18:01 De Heather Majaury à tous les panélistes: Il y a un excellent documentaire sur l'héritage de la redlining de Minneapolis. Je partagerai si je peux le trouver.
10:18:57 De Heather Majaury à tous les panélistes: Redlining et Greenling connectés s'ils ne tiennent pas compte de l'héritage
10:19:30 De l'Institut urbain canadien à Heather Majaury et à tous les panélistes: Salut, Heather! Lorsque vous partagez, assurez-vous de modifier vos paramètres de discussion sur «tous les panélistes et participants» afin que tout le monde puisse le recevoir. Merci!
10:20:26 De Tom Yarmon à tous les panélistes: la présentation de Julian me touche vraiment chez moi, assis dans mon bureau à domicile dans une rue verdoyante de Toronto. Je me souviens constamment que peu importe la fréquence à laquelle je professe mon ouverture d'esprit, mes années d'apprentissage et ma culture m'alourdissent encore. Merci Juliajn.
10:21:03 De Heather Majaury: Puis-je changer les messages déjà envoyés?
10:21:03 De Tom Yarmon: La présentation de Julian me touche vraiment chez moi, assis dans mon bureau à domicile dans une rue verdoyante de Toronto. Je me souviens constamment que peu importe la fréquence à laquelle je professe mon ouverture d'esprit, mes années d'apprentissage et ma culture m'alourdissent encore. Merci Juliajn.
10:21:32 De l'Institut urbain du Canada à Heather Majaury et à tous les panélistes: Rappelez aux participants de changer leurs paramètres de chat sur «tous les panélistes et participants» afin que tout le monde puisse voir vos commentaires. Merci!
10:21:41 De l'Institut urbain du Canada: Rappelez aux participants de changer leurs paramètres de discussion sur «tous les panélistes et participants» afin que tout le monde puisse voir vos commentaires. Merci!
10:21:41 De Olusola Olufemi: Julian très attentionné!
10:21:46 De Skylar Niehaus: conversation incroyable! Merci Julian!
10:22:06 De Jo Nee à tous les panélistes: Merci Julian - bonne discussion
10:22:09 De Nathan Rogers: démocratisez toutes les rues!
10:22:16 De Niko Casuncad à tous les panélistes: Ahh une excellente présentation, merci Julian
10:22:20 De Kate Macmillan: Merci Julian! Votre discours était si instructif et donne beaucoup de matière à réflexion!
10:22:20 De Elena Christy: Un discours génial! Merci, Julian!
10:22:25 De Corrine Cash à tous les panélistes: La planification urbaine a été utilisée pour la ségrégation raciale à travers l'histoire. Le système de réserve au Canada en est le reflet. Il suffit de regarder l'Afrique du Sud pendant l'apartheid (et après l'apartheid)
10:22:28 De Neelu Mehta: Merci beaucoup 🙂
10:22:39 De Corrine Cash: Bonjour à tous, je suis le Dr Corrine Cash. Je dirige le travail de création de communautés résilientes à l'Institut Coady à Antigonish et je suis professeur adjoint au programme sur le climat et l'environnement à l'Université St FX. Je suis également planificateur (maîtrise et doctorat en planification de l'Université de Waterloo). Contactez-moi à
10:22:45 De Corrine Cash: La planification urbaine a été utilisée pour la ségrégation raciale à travers l'histoire. Le système de réserve au Canada en est le reflet. Il suffit de regarder l'Afrique du Sud pendant l'apartheid (et après l'apartheid)
10:22:56 D'Alison Moreau: Julian, votre discours a vraiment aidé à faire le lien entre la justice sociale et environnementale, pour moi. J'apprendrai le plus possible sur ce sujet! Merci beaucoup pour vos idées et vos appels au changement.
10:23:08 De Elizabeth Jassem, Y (i) DOME ID Ltd., (YC SSC) York Centre Seniors Direction à tous les panélistes: Excellente PRÉSENTION Julian. D'accord avec Alex concernant l'analyse complète des rues.
10:23:14 De Jeanette Fich Jespersen à tous les panélistes: Excellentes idées et conclusions contextuelles, vraiment utiles. Merci.
10:23:43 De Max Brookman: Très perspicace et stimulant pour lier la justice sociale et le changement climatique
10:23:48 De Elizabeth Jassem, Y (i) DOME ID Ltd., (YC SSC) York Centre Seniors Direction à tous les panélistes: BON MATIN! Bonjour à CUI et à tous !!
10:23:49 De l'Institut urbain canadien à Julian Agyeman (en privé): Julian! Tu étais formidable!! Bien joué!!!
10:24:02 De Rollajia Cooper: Merci beaucoup.
10:24:05 De Minaz Asani: Julian, c'était génial, il a été aux prises avec ces problèmes et vous les avez très bien exposés.
10:24:06 De Lilian Phillip à tous les panélistes: Merci, Jillian a adoré!
10:24:33 De Lester Brown: toujours préoccupé par la gentrification verte. Merci pour ta présentation Julian.
10:26:46 De Ohi Izirein à tous les panélistes: les planificateurs continuent d'être faibles pour déterminer ce que les politiciens mettent en place. Les planificateurs sont-ils des visionnaires ou sont-ils simplement des exécutants des politiques des politiciens?
10:26:59 De Vivian Forssman: Merci pour l'excellent groupe d'intervenants aujourd'hui - j'aimerais pouvoir rester sur cet appel mais un autre appel Zoom attend. Je suis Vivian Forssman, responsable de programme chez Adaptation Learning Network (, une initiative de Resilience by Design Lab de la Royal Roads University. ALN se concentre sur l'éducation et la formation sur l'adaptation au climat.
10:32:07 De Corrine Cash: Des planificateurs d'Afrique du Sud sont venus au Canada pour apprendre comment le système de réserve a été conçu quand ils (les planificateurs sud-africains) ont conçu spatialement l'apartheid. C'est important parce que nous, au Canada, pensons parfois que nous n'avons fait (et ne faisons) pas de mal.
10:34:14 De Niko Casuncad: Oui !!
10:34:52 De Paul Partington: 👏
10:35:39 De Rachelle Morgan à tous les panélistes: **** Finger snap *****
10:35:58 De Rachelle Morgan: **** Finger snap *****
10:36:43 De Olusola Olufemi: Injustice! Ségrégation spatiale et raciale, c'est ce que sont les communautés fermées, en particulier en Afrique du Sud. Rien n'a vraiment changé en ce qui concerne la planification racialisée malgré la déségrégation et les politiques déracialisantes.
10:37:55 De Niko Casuncad: Ahh c'est tellement génial, tellement à apprendre et à mettre en pratique
10:40:54 De Kate Macmillan: Même la mise en page du plan semble plus accessible à lire et à comprendre! Un tel travail passionnant Tamika!
10:41:52 De Rachelle Morgan: Je suis d'accord Kate, je suis d'accord que c'est digeste!
10:42:19 De Rachelle Morgan: LOLOLOL
10:42:47 De Meghan McMorris à tous les panélistes: Quelqu'un peut-il publier le site Web s'il vous plaît?
10:42:51 De Purshottama Reddy: Les points mentionnés sur l'aménagement du territoire racialisé sont très pertinents et importants - tout aussi important est le racisme institutionnalisé (qui n'est pas immédiatement visible) qui doit être traité de toute urgence.
10:43:15 De Rachelle Morgan: Oui Co-Power !!!! Pouvoir communautaire !!! Payez la communauté comme les experts qu'elle est !!
10:43:25 De Gagan Batra à tous les panélistes: Old Kanye a également dit qu'avoir de l'argent n'est pas tout, mais ne pas l'avoir, c'est ... J'ai ressenti cela et tellement vrai en regardant les différentes dynamiques de pouvoir entre faible revenu et revenu élevé
10:43:45 De Niko Casuncad: 100%
10:44:47 De Kristal Çelik à tous les panélistes: Merci d'être debout et de partager cette heure si tôt de la Californie, Tamika
10:45:01 De Kristal Çelik: Merci d'être debout et de partager cette heure si tôt de la Californie, Tamika
10:47:51 De Sarena Seifer à tous les panélistes: présentation fantastique
10:48:08 De Niko Casuncad: Merci Tamika!
10:48:13 De Danielle Lenarcic Biss: Je suis très reconnaissante d'avoir appris pendant toutes ces présentations. Merci merci!
10:48:17 De Maria Bravo: Merci à tous!
10:48:19 De Paul Mackinnon, AoCB:
10:48:36 De Karol Murillo à tous les panélistes: Merci Tamika
10:48:38 De Reiko Ema à tous les panélistes: Wow !!!
10:48:48 De Mark Pajot à tous les panélistes: une révélation rafraîchissante de la vérité
10:48:51 De l'Institut urbain canadien à Tamika Butler sur Tongva Land (en privé): incroyable! Bien joué!!
10:48:52 De Margaret Prophet: très reconnaissante pour l'apprentissage de cette session. 🙏
10:48:55 De Sean Kelly à tous les panélistes: Excellentes présentations, merci à vous tous.
10:49:10 De Elena Christy: Merci beaucoup, Tamika! Vous avez soulevé tant de points impératifs.
10:49:16 De Skylar Niehaus: discours incroyable! Merci Tamika!
10:49:18 De Minaz Asani: Omg Tamika, merci! Vous pouvez le voir, mais j'applaudis bruyamment.
10:49:21 De Brian Webb: Cette session a été fantastique. Tant de choses à essayer de mettre en pratique
10:49:58 De Alan Mcnair: Ce sont peut-être les 2 meilleures heures que j'ai jamais passées dans ma vie professionnelle à planifier!
10:50:12 De Daniel Bryce à tous les panélistes: C'est probablement la meilleure conférence que j'aie jamais vue, virtuelle ou non!
10:50:48 d'André. à tous les panélistes: un enregistrement sera-t-il disponible?
10:50:51 De Tara Wickwire, AoCB: N'hésitez pas à soumettre une question à nos panélistes.
10:50:57 De l'Institut urbain du Canada: Rappelez aux participants de changer vos paramètres de chat sur «tous les panélistes et participants» afin que tout le monde puisse voir vos commentaires.
10:51:14 De l'Institut urbain canadien: Les conversations seront enregistrées sur et Art of City Building sur YouTube. Merci de partager vos observations et vos apprentissages - nous célébrons l'engagement! #aocb2020
10:51:16 De Mark Pajot à tous les panélistes: En observant comment les choses se déroulent aux États-Unis - vous pensez que le changement peut changer sans violence? Là
10:51:33 De reg nalezyty: Deux de mes meilleures heures passées depuis longtemps. J'espère que les conseillers à qui j'ai envoyé le lien ont effectivement assisté
10:51:36 De Jeanette Fich Jespersen à tous les panélistes: Merci beaucoup pour vos présentations passionnées et perspicaces, Tamika. Merci à tous les organisateurs et orateurs, ce fut une constellation de connaissances des plus éclairantes.
10:51:50 De l'Institut urbain canadien à Mark Pajot et à tous les panélistes: Mark, n'hésitez pas à partager la question avec tous les participants aussi….
10:52:25 De Elena Christy: D'accord Alan Mcnair!
10:52:39 De Melissa Ricci à tous les panélistes: un panel incroyable! Merci CUI.
10:53:00 De Chris Chopik à tous les panélistes: Comment créer des circonstances pour l'autodétermination #plannedretreat, en particulier en travaillant avec des populations vulnérables à travers le continent? #FAEMAfundsDisasterResponseNotDisasterPrepardeness
10:53:37 De Chris Chopik à tous les panélistes: FEMA
10:54:08 De Mark Pajot: En observant comment les choses se déroulent aux États-Unis, vous pensez que les choses peuvent changer de manière pacifique? Il ne semble pas y avoir de dirigeants au même niveau actuellement.
10:54:48 De Gagan Batra: Comment recommanderiez-vous aux employés municipaux d'influencer les décideurs pour qu'ils voient ces questions d'iniquité et le lien entre l'espace urbain et les disparités raciales comme des problèmes à résoudre? Les dirigeants sont si peu disposés parfois à admettre qu'il y a un problème et les dirigeants non minoritaires surtout ne s'attaquent pas à ces problèmes parce que c'est «inconfortable».
10:54:49 De Purshottama Reddy: Ma question: je crois comprendre que dans l'ensemble, nous n'avons pas à changer de législation / politique pour assurer l'accessibilité / l'équité, mais un changement d'attitude, de comportement et peut-être de politique / de gestion . Des commentaires?
10:57:03 De Jacqueline Rhee: La canonisation du précédent historique comme justification de la politique actuelle doit être dénouée. Nous devons également apporter ces changements nécessaires en matière d’équité sans menacer les personnes qui jouissent actuellement de tous ces privilèges. Quelles mesures pouvons-nous prendre pour déplacer l'aiguille?
10:57:37 De Mark Pajot: Le défi est également qu'il n'y a pas de récompense pour ceux qui sont au gouvernement. plaider pour la justice. Si quoi que ce soit, ceux qui sont courageux ne sont souvent pas invités aux réunions ...
10:57:59 De Michael Redhead Champagne à tous les panélistes: comment inclure les voix de la désobéissance civile ou de la protestation dans les processus d'urbanisme ?? c'est souvent inattendu, mais leur amour de l'espace et leur voix en quête d'équité sont indéniables. Comment les urbanistes montrent-ils aux manifestants (pour les protecteurs fonciers des peuples autochtones) qu'ils écoutent?
10:59:29 De NEGIN Minaei: Les gens ne sont pas encore ouverts à entendre parler des différences raciales et à les célébrer afin que nous puissions les intégrer dans notre planification et notre conception pour créer l'inclusion sociale et l'équité pour tous. Parler des différences raciales et accepter les gens tels qu'ils sont est toujours considéré comme très sensible. Comment montrez-vous vos bonnes intentions lorsque vous voulez parler d'inclusion de tout le monde?
10:59:58 De Chris Chopik à tous les panélistes: #DeepEthnography #DeepListening gardant l'avenir des communautés autodéterminé.
11:00:28 De Jeanette Fich Jespersen: Hmm, c'est un défi d'avoir le niveau de mise en œuvre, les praticiens, ont les mêmes idées que nous avons appréciées ici. En parlant de privilège, à mon humble avis, c'est un privilège que de nombreux pratiquants ne reçoivent pas. Ou bien, leur réalité est limitée par des procédures de planification budgétaire à courte vue: aucun entretien n'est autorisé, par exemple.
11:00:33 De l'Institut urbain canadien à Selena Zhang, CUI (en privé): Salut, Selena! Mary se demande si quelqu'un peut enregistrer le chat, mais le mien sera ralenti par le fait que je téléchargerai la vidéo en même temps. Pourriez-vous cliquer sur les trois points à droite du chat TO: en bas de l'écran de chat ici et sélectionnez ENREGISTRER LE CHAT? Mary aimerait revoir avant la session de midi.
11:01:58 De Chris Chopik à tous les panélistes: où trouver le budget pour les stratégies de conception inclusives, y a-t-il une métrique de bénéfice ROI pour la conception inclusive?
11:02:04 De Kara Martin: Merci beaucoup à tous les présentateurs pour leur temps, leurs expériences et leur perspicacité; merci également à l'équipe d'organisation Art of City Building et à CUI pour l'organisation et l'accueil.
11:02:27 De Selena Zhang, CUI à l'Institut urbain du Canada (en privé): compris
11:02:37 De l'Institut urbain canadien à Selena Zhang, CUI (en privé): Merci!
11:02:48 De Selena Zhang, CUI à l'Institut urbain du Canada (en privé): Dois-je faire ça juste avant que ce soit fini? ou elle le veut maintenant?
11:03:04 De Gagan Batra: Je ne sais pas comment faire accepter aux gens la responsabilité de perpétuer les inégalités et ces disparités. Ma communauté n'est pas extrêmement diversifiée historiquement, mais au cours de la dernière décennie, elle a accueilli beaucoup plus d'immigrants et de POC, et il y a aussi une énorme population d'Autochtones vivant en milieu urbain. à l'avenir, j'aimerais avoir ces considérations de ségrégation raciale dans la planification de la ville sur la table de discussion, mais c'est difficile quand la ville «multiculturelle» est encore un concept étranger aux résidents
11:03:21 De l'Institut urbain du Canada: Veuillez partager vos questions avec tout le monde!
11:04:38 De l'Institut urbain du Canada: Merci d'avoir participé à la conférence Art of City Building d'aujourd'hui! Nous espérons que vous appréciez le programme. Veuillez suivre sur Twitter et Instagram @ AoCB2020 et Facebook
11:05:17 De STEVEN MASTORAS: Comment ramener rapidement et efficacement les rues principales à la vie avec des densités plus élevées après cette pandémie désastreuse?
11:06:27 De Margaret Prophet à tous les panélistes: les groupes communautaires peuvent aider et veulent aider. Le personnel doit les rechercher en tant que partenaires car les groupes communautaires peuvent mobiliser et organiser les communautés pour soutenir le changement nécessaire.
11:06:48 De Cheryl Evans: C'est l'un des grands défis que ceux qui détiennent le pouvoir ne souhaitent pas y renoncer. Ils veulent se battre plus dur pour protéger leur privilège?
11:07:33 De Nick McLean à tous les panélistes: actions d'observation vraiment intéressantes de Goodall ici
11:09:17 De Natalia Diaz-Insense: Merci, Tamika, d'avoir évoqué la nécessité d'accorder la priorité à l'écoute de la communauté et à la prise de parole (c'est-à-dire être complices), au lieu d'être des alliés en matière d'équité.
11:09:44 De Scott Borden: Démanteler les départements de planification ... c'est une idée
11:09:53 D'Aimée González Ferriol: Ce serait bien aussi d'entendre des réflexions sur la façon de traiter la position «pas dans mon quartier» des communautés privilégiées qui s'opposent, par exemple, aux immeubles multifamiliaux, aux logements sociaux ou aux refuges pour sans-abri. situé dans leur espace. Merci!
11:10:02 De l'Institut urbain du Canada: Alex Bozicovic Jeff Goodell Katherine Peinhardt Julian Agyeman https: // twitter .com / julianagyeman Tamika Butler
11:10:33 De Niko Casuncad: Idées et actions que j'aurais aimé apprendre en planifiant l'école!
11:10:50 Depuis FB:.
11:10:59 De Doug Snyder à tous les panélistes: Bohm Dialog… .. dialogue entre e-mails.
11:11:37 De Paul Mackinnon, AoCB: Intéressant. Pendant longtemps, au Canada, nous avons considéré une planification forte (progressive) des maires aux États-Unis comme étant transformatrice. Je serais très intéressé de voir la proposition à Boston. Cela a-t-il été fait ailleurs?
11:11:48 De Gagan Batra: Bon point - je suis l'un des rares POC de mon organisation et j'ai l'impression d'avoir été symbolisé à plusieurs reprises. nous devons également reconnaître que l'expérience et les pensées d'une personne ne sont pas représentatives de l'ensemble de la population et que, comme toute autre enquête / données, nous devons être holistiques dans les perspectives que nous entendons avant de tirer des conclusions
11:12:05 De Ohi Izirein à tous les panélistes: Oui. L'approche de l'Université Tuft en matière de formation des planificateurs est excellente. Ce sera une meilleure façon de planifier. Actuellement, la plupart des planificateurs ne font que l'estampage en caoutchouc. Les planificateurs travaillent dans un environnement hautement politisé.
11:12:25 De Michael Chong: Comment les pratiques décisionnelles «fondées sur les données» s'intègrent-elles (ou ne s'intègrent-elles pas) avec la résolution des problèmes de changement climatique et de justice? Comment les statisticiens, les data scientists et les universitaires pourraient-ils faire un travail efficace dans ce domaine? Spécifiquement pour ceux qui pourraient avoir des compétences techniques à apporter, mais pas autant d'expérience dans le travail communautaire?
11:13:14 De l'Institut urbain canadien à Tara Wickwire, AoCB (en privé): Hé, Tara! Est-ce que ce libellé est correct? Je ne me souviens pas si tu arrives au bac à la fin ou si Alex termine. L'AOCB tient à remercier notre hôte Alex Bozikovic et tout notre panel pour une discussion exceptionnelle aujourd'hui. Merci également à nos participants pour votre attention et votre participation.
11:14:18 De Jeanette Fich Jespersen: Il y a de grandes expériences américaines avec le retour sur investissement sur les approches inclusives, veuillez visiter par exemple le site Web du Center for Active Design ou du Center for Active Design de l'Université de San Diego. Cela dit, il y a lieu de plaider en faveur de l'approche humaine, en accordant moins de respect à la question de savoir si elle «porte ses fruits». Faites-le simplement, car c'est la bonne chose à respecter pour vos semblables, de tous âges, capacités et origines.
11:14:20 De Faryal Diwan: oui Tamika !!
11:14:49 De Jeanette Fich Jespersen: Désolé, c'était le Center for Active Living Research, Université de San Diego.
11:14:51 De Andrea Redmond: Avec des limites de temps (en tant que planificateurs) et de budgets (en tant que fonctionnaires), nous devons mettre l'accent sur une écoute approfondie. Comment savoir si nous sommes allés assez loin en engageant les communautés?
11:14:52 De Elizabeth Jassem, Y (i) DOME ID Ltd., (YC SSC) York Centre Seniors Direction tous les panélistes: excellent Tamika. Oui .
11:16:59 De Jurij Leshchyshyn: Outre la nécessité d'une participation communautaire locale efficace, équitable, diversifiée, engagée et responsabilisée, les discussions sur les principales causes des inégalités sociales et environnementales doivent inclure les impacts des moteurs économiques et financiers, notamment le néolibéralisme et le capitalisme galopant. , évasion fiscale, blanchiment d'argent (notamment par le biais de l'immobilier résidentiel) Davos, influences privées et corporatives sur les politiques publiques, oligarques nationaux et internationaux, c'est-à-dire les racines institutionnelles, marchandes, commerciales et privées des questions en discussion.
11:18:48 De l'Institut urbain du Canada: L'AOCB tient à remercier notre hôte Alex Bozikovic et tout notre panel pour une discussion exceptionnelle aujourd'hui. Merci également à nos participants pour votre attention et votre participation.
11:19:18 De Faryal Diwan: excellente question Julian!
11:19:24 De Irena Kohn à tous les panélistes: Merci!
11:19:36 De Chris Chopik à tous les panélistes: Awesome Wrap Julien. 1TP3 Ce sont les voix abroiginales
11:19:36 De Faryal Diwan: merci!
11:19:36 De Andrea Redmond: wow, merci
11:19:36 De Gagan Batra: voici le genre de questions inconfortables qu'il ne faut pas avoir peur de poser!