What Lessons Can We Learn from Disasters and Civic Emergencies?

Panellists discussed the changing nature of emergency management in a “multi-crisis century,” the concept of community resilience and vulnerability, and the importance of moving from cost-benefit to social benefit analysis.

5 Key

A roundup of the most compelling ideas, themes and quotes from this candid conversation

1. Emergency management has to be considered in the context of other shocks and stresses happening in a community.

After Hurricane Andrew in 1992, the state of Florida built a sophisticated, self-funding emergency management system. It adopted a holistic understanding of shocks and stresses—including regional access to affordable housing, transportation, income disparities, and other equity issues—to ensure that responses were locally informed. 

As a result, “when the [COVID] pandemic hit, it wasn’t the broader health department or emergency management department who respondedit was the Resilience Office that had conceptually thought about this and had already partnered with the 34 municipalities in our county, and with our adjacent counties, to respond,” explains James Murley, Chief Resilience Officer of Miami-Dade County.

2. The rise of multi-crisis events is challenging traditional models of probability.

“There are so many strains in the systems in our world—because we haven’t kept up with infrastructure investment, because of climate change—that are resulting in a reality where we’ll see more and more of these multi hazard or multi-crisis events happen concurrently,” noted Daniel Aldrich, Director of the Security and Resilience Studies Program at Northeastern University in Boston. 

As a result, Aldrich argued that the probability side of the risk management equation is becoming less viable. “The other part of the equation is vulnerability, so we need to understand vulnerabilities much more richly, and put our resources there so now actually risk management is vulnerability reduction,” said Aldrich.

3. The concept of vulnerability must be continually interrogated. 

As a Professor at the University of Calgary’s Faculty of Social Work, Julie Drolet has extensively research community resilience in response to disaster, including British Columbia’s wildfires. 

“Intersectionality includes a variety of identity factors—such as age, gender, ability, culture, ethics, background, and immigration status—which contribute to how people experience different events,” explained Drolet. “Some of those factors can be positive and assets, and then other aspects might present as barriers. We need to move away from deficit-focused approaches to really think about the strengths, assets, and abilities that present in different combinations.” 

“We’re always really careful in our research not to blanket statement a group as ‘vulnerable’,” agreed Aldrich. “In post-tsunami Japan, many elderly people whom I assumed were vulnerable were the opposite. They’d already been through war and hardships without water or electricity, and they were ready to help bounce back and teach the younger generations how to endure.” 

4. Reciprocal, trust-based relationships are key to community resilience.

In the United States, 90% of the variation in COVID-19 outcomes was predicated on differencing local rates of social capital and trust.

Jeb Brugmann, Founding Principal of the Resilient Cities Catalyst, has also seen this reality while working with a Resilient Neighbourhoods program in one of the most climate-exposed areas of Northeast Houston.

“Every time there’s any kind of a tropical storm it gets flooded,” said Brugmann. “It’s a Black neighbourhood that has been historically ignored, and so there wasn’t a good working relationship with the local community and the municipality. So I think a lot of the getting the appropriate resources to has to do first with actually getting effective relationships and dynamics happening—the kind of social work of urbanism.”

5. It’s time to move from cost-benefit to social benefit analysis.

In his closing remarks, Aldrich encouraged a move away from physical infrastructure investment, such as building seawalls or moving houses, towards greater support of social infrastructure.

“Part of that is building relationships and moving outside of our silos to recognize that everyone has a role to play in reducing these risks—not just disaster and emergency management professionals,” said Aldrich.

Full Panel

Note to readers: This video session was transcribed using auto-transcribing software.  Questions or concerns with the transcription can be directed to events@canurb.org with “transcription” in the subject line.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:01:21
Hi, everybody! It’s Mary Rowe, those of you panicking one of your on the right network.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:01:26
We always take a few minutes to let the room fill, so those would be that we’re packed, and you couldn’t hear or see anything. We’re here.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:01:32
We’re just waiting till the room gets set more or less full.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:01:36
It’s not quite yet. People will still roll in over the next couple of minutes, anyway.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:01:39
Welcome. I’m the CEO of Cui, and really pleased to bring you back for a city talk this time on how we actually address and deal with and understand and learn from disasters another kinds of civic emergencies, and we have some really great people who come we were coming on to share their

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:01:55
experience and the next week we’re going to talk very specifically about climate cuta adaptation and mitigation with our friends from Ikley and fresh off, of Cop and David Miller will be with us in a number of others to talk about their experience David wasn’t there but one of the

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:02:11
other panelists Barbara was, in Egypt, and so, we’ll hear from the the different perspectives in terms of how those international dialogues actually whether they work or advance or not, and where do we go next but today as I suggested we’re going to take a really sharp look

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:02:24
at emergencies and disasters and and I happen to be in Toronto today, and we’re asking everyone obviously tell us where you are.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:02:32
Tell us where you are, and also you can share with us what ancestral or indigenous territory you’re on, in our case.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:02:38
It’s the Mrs. August of the credit the Chippewa, the inhabit, the Hudnashani, And the wind at peoples, and covered by treaty 13 the Williams treaty and home out as we know to many first nations maintain in with people’s and we

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:02:54
At Cui continue to wrestle with this and try to figure out what our how do we actually do?

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:02:59
Truth and the reconciliation components both of these things, and I think in terms of this lens that we’re going to bring to around disasters, and how we cope disasters of course indigenous peoples have would have used and years and years and years and years and years.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:03:13
Of experience of what happens when a challenge by caused by human settlement completely disrupts, and the the land and the ecosystems in which they operate.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:03:25
So this is fundamentally a reconciliation exercise for all of us and I’m gonna ask Michael panels come on and expose their screen, so you can see them, as I said, we’re appreciative that people are joining us, from different parts.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:03:36
Of the North America today, and also to say that this is American Thanksgiving Week in the Us.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:03:42
For Canadians. Americans assume that we we don’t know these things, but of course we watch your television and we see all the Black Friday ads.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:03:51
So we know that Thursday is your big day, and I’m a dual citizen, as our number of people I know in our network here, and so we appreciate people coming in that’s why we adjusted and normally city talk will be later.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:04:01
In the week this week. It’s today on a Tuesday, so that those of our American colleagues who are taking a holiday and start to travel tomorrow could join us.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:04:09
So thanks everybody really. Really important conversation probably is there one that’s more important. I doubt it.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:04:15
But in terms of how we actually come to terms with what we’ve learned, we, on the seventh of December.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:04:20
At Cui are going to Mark Covid. 1,000 believe it or not.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:04:25
The 7, the December. I think it’s technically the sixth.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:04:28
But we’re going on the seventh is when we mark a 1,000 days since the world health organization labeled this a Global emergency and that’s a long 1,000 days.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:04:38
I feel like we all just need to take a breath about what we’ve been through, and then part of what we’re collectively what we’ve been through, and part of what we’re at cui trying to pivot to since that’s a very popular covid word is what what are

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:04:56
The learn lessons. You know what will the Covid legacy be in terms of how we do city building differently?

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:05:03
What are we going to take from this extraordinary global period of time?

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:05:09
And what what have we learned, and what will stick we had through city talk through this this series that we’ve been doing since April of 20.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:05:19
We’ve been saying what’s working, what’s not and what’s next?

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:05:22
And I think for us now the question is, and what needs to stick?

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:05:27
So, Daniel, I’m so pleased to have you here because you’re a scholar on this stuff, and you and I got to know each other in New Orleans after Katrina and you’ve spent to your career building this knowledge around how do we actually integrate learn

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:05:43
from integrate and change, how we do things as a result of some dramatic kind of disaster so I’m going to go to you first and then you’re in Boston saying we’re really appreciative of you joining us and then i’ll continue to swing around each of you to say

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:05:55
something in in the you know your opening perspective, and then we’ll have a good conversation and people on the chat.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:06:00
Remember whatever you put in the chat stays in the chat, because we publish we publish the chat, and we also publish the video here.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:06:07
So and then people watch it, and they continue to learn.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:06:10
So, Daniel, thanks for joining us over to you

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:06:12
Thanks, driving me, so I guess I’d start by pointing out that even in 2,022 the ways that we handle shocks and disasters are very much, rooted in old school traditional approaches typically after a shocker disaster we get in food and water maybe medical supplies if

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:06:27
it’s of America to some other country or 10 aid to some other country.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:06:31
It’s the same kind of thing with beds intense, and you walk away, and oftentimes the real drivers of recovered resilience are completely ignored, and those actual drivers come from the connections in the community itself not outside aid not assistance not sweaters that we send

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:06:46
In that are correctly inappropriate or food.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:06:47
It’s some belonging there, but really the community itself.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:06:50
So I, looking forward to a conversation today on the ways that the community itself already has the seeds of recovery inside it, and the ways that we can think about it as residents as activists and you members of helping communities to activate those ties

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:07:06
Absolutely. And it’s interesting for me to hear you say this because, of course, you and I intersected when I was in neurons and I liked you stood there watching with great interest that in fact, it was mutual aid networks that formed up and and actually self organized at

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:07:26
our own kinds of solutions which we’ve been seeing here in Covid as well, and there was an expectation, at least in America, that a national authority called Fema was going to somehow come, in and solve it all and as you said Beds and tents, and I don’t know if you remember this moment as well as

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:07:45
I do, Daniel. But Karen Gadba, who was one of the local organizers in neurons and who’s an artist, and I think we’ve had her on city. Talk I’m trying.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:07:54
To remember, but she was an artist who found herself being the documenter of the erosion of her neighborhood in its e after the storm, and whether it was, going to be restored, in ways that people could find their way back and she said you know for a long time we we kept thinking the cavalry?

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:08:10
Was coming that they come over the hill, and then they realized after a long time, year and a half, that that they weren’t coming, and that her expression was that we are the ones that we’ve been waiting for.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:08:21
And in terms of all the different research that you’ve done down. You.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:08:23
Have you’ve seen that repeat? Is that being reinforced regularly

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:08:26
Absolutely, actually to been to my own story back in 2,005.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:08:30
In fact, our own house was just right in Lake View so as the very naive conception of disaster recovery.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:08:31

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:08:34
And had this vision of the Ach, the clearing house check come to me with this big 8 foot long check right giving me back the value of the house and its contents from Fema or maybe private insurance, and and neither the state nor the market stepped in as you said already quite well the people that got my

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:08:49
Family, and I out of that position of having no job, no house, no possessions.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:08:54
Our car was submerged like a submarine. People had helped us get out, of course, for their friends, friends or friends, network and all the kind of stuff, and absolutely that moment in my own life pivoted me.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:09:03
Away from my old research, which is completely relevant at this point into this field of disasters and shocks, and since then I’ve done work in a number of countries, India Israel, Japan back in the gulf coast and yes, over and over again, even to the forms of the networks are quite different so for example after the

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:09:18
2,004 tsunami in the Indio Indian Ocean.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:09:22
The way is that local communities organized are quite different. That, say, the North American communities or Japan communities.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:09:28
Nonetheless, it’s the same form of the networks that we’re seeing right.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:09:30
What we call bonding, bridging, and linking ties, bonding ties from people who are similar bridging ties between people who are different and then linking ties are to vertical and I would argue I think after a lot of research now that those horizontal and

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:09:43
vertical ties, you can tell pretty quickly before shock.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:09:46
How communities will do afterwards, based on the distribution of that inability to internally have a vision trust, engagement, and then to what degree are they listen to to by decision makers?

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:09:57
To what degree do they trust local authorities, regional authorities?

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:09:59
What degree are they actually as a table of decision, making

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:10:02
And that’s reinforced Eric Kleinberg’s work.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:10:05
You know that early piece of work he did when he brought his Phd.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:10:08
On the Chicago heat wave, and he showed that this is heatwave.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:10:11
Somebody can put it into the chat. Eric Kleinberg, where he showed that the parts of Chicago that fared better during that heat wave were the areas that actually had those ties in that social network and the areas that were more islated James You’re in the belly of the

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:10:23
Beast there, not not that we want to call Florida at least just saying, but you are on the point lines of of this repeatedly, and what Daniel are are talking about is from 2,005 which 17 years ago, and I remember when the term resilience first surfaced in

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:10:40
That just discourse prior to that resilience was only talked about really in the psychology domain, about individual resilience, so whereas you, James, now, 17 years later, you’re confronted with this all the time so let’s get a perspective from you in Florida and then.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:10:53
I’m going to come to you, Julie, to get to your piece.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:10:56
And then Jeb, you’ll you’ll do clean up.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:10:58
Go ahead, James. Nice nice to have you

[James Murley] 12:11:00
Oh, thank you, Mary, thank you for the invitation to participate this great opportunity.

[James Murley] 12:11:05
You know my perspective on this is really tracks. My own professional experience working in the United States, but primarily in Florida, where back at 2,005, and before I was running the state of Florida emergency management operations when we would experience our share of hurricanes and

[James Murley] 12:11:25
tornadoes floods, you know, and we were in.

[James Murley] 12:11:30
We were directly involved with incident management. That’s the classic Fema control structure, reactive and I’m not sure what happened to Florida stems from the tragic situation we plan ourselves in after hurricane andrew in 1,992 so we have built

[James Murley] 12:11:47
A very sophisticated emergency management operation which cell phones itself, and a and is even into insurance window insurance.

[James Murley] 12:11:58
Now what happened to me. Professionally was, I left that role and went to the university, where I had an opportunity to work at Florida, Atlantic University at a research center that started to get in to climate adaptation try to understand the whole range of issues we’re ahead of us in terms of

[James Murley] 12:12:15
the change and conditions, and then working with Jeb and the Rockefeller Foundation, 100 resilient cities program really brought me to the job I’ve been today as the chief resilience officer for the Seventh largest county and now we really do think of emergency management.

[James Murley] 12:12:34
And incident management in the company of other shocks and stresses that are occurring in our community.

[James Murley] 12:12:42
And we’ve had our share from a building collapse to the hurricanes, and and you know back when we were developing the resilient strategy with the assistance of the Rockflower. Foundation.

[James Murley] 12:12:58
We had an experience with Hey, mosquito borne zine co disease called Zika.

[James Murley] 12:13:02
They actually found his way from our neighbors to the south into our tours, dominated community and a disease of that nature that could have unattended health impacts is is, you know, shocks a tourist economy.

[James Murley] 12:13:21
We were able to manage that. And so in our strategy would put. We put.

[James Murley] 12:13:26
This was 2,01819 we put the need to prepare ourselves for future pandemics.

[James Murley] 12:13:35
So we when the pandemic hit it wasn’t the health department it wasn’t the emergency management department.

[James Murley] 12:13:42
It was the Resilience Office that it can sexual be thought about this.

[James Murley] 12:13:46
We didn’t have anything identified at all that we’re gonna meet the needs or the challenges that came later.

[James Murley] 12:13:53
But it’s because we had thought broadly about shocks and stresses.

[James Murley] 12:13:57
We had build a strategy partnered with the 34 municipalities in our county, with our Jason counties, we and we continue that’s our approach today.

[James Murley] 12:14:08
Is to use a resilience, strategic approach to deal with these, especially the shocks.

[James Murley] 12:14:14
But the stresses of things like a fourable housing transportation moved equity issues income, disparity, all those in the context of dealing with these emergencies.

[James Murley] 12:14:27
I’m probably I’d end at this point, though, Mary, saying that what we have found is there a real resilience within our community groups, especially not for profits.

[James Murley] 12:14:37
They are, you know this is a community they have oh, over 60% of our residents were born in another country.

[James Murley] 12:14:46
So there are language barriers. There are certainly parts of our community that are don’t have official status, and they’re not always comfortable going into the you know, to the female run disaster relief office, and so we have a rich group a rich array.

[James Murley] 12:15:05
Of, not for profits who have created resilience hubs.

[James Murley] 12:15:08
We even have a resilience pod, which is a 40 foot container, outfitted to to Mobile.

[James Murley] 12:15:15
Take it in to different communities to get out of information.

[James Murley] 12:15:19
All of that happens a lot easier in some of our communities, and if we did, sort of the official entrance and and we’ve learning that we’re building that that strength within our community thanks

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:15:33
You know it’s it’s so interesting to hear how resilience has just become part of our parlance right, and the Rockefeller it helps when you got a 100 million dollars and you go.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:15:43
And establish resilience officers, but it was also, I think, the foresight of Judy Roden, who wrote a book called The Resilience Dividend, which I’ve sort of stolen from the call of up to ask What’s the Covid.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:15:54
Dividend this notion, so I might, Jeb, we could come to you next, because James gave you a perfect segue.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:15:59
But I’m gonna stick with my order because I want to go to Julie because it’s interesting.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:16:03
You know, Julie, you’re a social worker.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:16:04
Train as a social worker. My sister’s a social worker, and when I sort of stumbled into this world because I was in neurons, I I learned about this concept of resilience, but my sister sort of looked at me with like the only way a sister can like the you know, of course.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:16:22
Resilience, and that the social work community has been thinking about resilience at the individual scale in the family scale for years. Right?

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:16:29
And I know that your focus of your work is on the people side of this.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:16:34
So do you want to speak a bit to that? And then Jeb will go back to the broader conversation about resilience around the world.

[Julie Drolet] 12:16:41
Sure. Thank you and and thank you for the invitation to be here today.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:16:41
Go ahead, Julie, give us your perspective.

[Julie Drolet] 12:16:45
So has a social worker and a researcher in this area.

[Julie Drolet] 12:16:49
Now for about 15 years the field of disaster, social work is one that’s emerging.

[Julie Drolet] 12:16:56
Influenced by different positionings like green social work, which are some new paradigms that are emerging that are really recognizing the important role that the natural and physical environment played in people’s lives and how people are also affecting the environment and here i’m located on tracy 6 territory I’m in

[Julie Drolet] 12:17:15
The city of Edmonton, and just recognizing that here in the province of El Alberta, some of some very major disasters have taken place here over the last decade with the 2,013 floods in southern alberta and then the 2,016 Wildfire, in

[Julie Drolet] 12:17:32
Northern Alberta and Fort Nick Murray, and I’ve had the opportunity to be engaged in some large partnership research projects.

[Julie Drolet] 12:17:38
Looking at some of the impacts of these disasters and what they mean for people.

[Julie Drolet] 12:17:42
And and I would say, This is a real strength that social work brings to this conversation is a focus on the social dimensions, and how these events, so natural hazard disasters that are exacerbated by climate change are impacting marginalized or disadvantaged individuals in groups and and kind

[Julie Drolet] 12:18:03
Of what that looks like, and maybe to provide some context in Canada.

[Julie Drolet] 12:18:07
We know that there are a number of natural hazard disasters that have taken place over the last 100 years.

[Julie Drolet] 12:18:16
The counts at 844 of these fled severe storms, extreme cold drought, wildfires, earthquakes, landslides, and epidemics, so you know we are experiencing these impacts across the country from coast to coast and we know that these extreme weather events are now costing us.

[Julie Drolet] 12:18:34
More in economic terms about 2 billion annually, and this is increased by about half a 1 billion dollars from a decade ago.

[Julie Drolet] 12:18:43
Many people are being impacted across all levels of society, and what I’ve my research has looked at the role of social workers in other human service professionals who are part of the social service workforce and really calling for more holistic and a whole of society approach in addressing some of the risks and looking

[Julie Drolet] 12:19:06
At all phases of disaster, and how we could do things differently to foster greater community resilience.

[Julie Drolet] 12:19:13
So I’m happy to be here and join this conversation today.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:19:19
Yeah. And this notion of community resilience. So it really is a concept that scales I, as an individual, have resilience.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:19:25
My household has resilience, my block my district, and then the notion of community resilience I’m a fellow with shortfast, which is a just for the benefit of Daniel and James, because you might not know it’s a Canadian.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:19:39
Charity that is focused on rural economic development. It is.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:19:42
It’s a social enterprise that that funds it based in Photo Island, Newfoundland, which is like 2,600 people, very very remote in the northeast coast of the of the Atlantic, and they’re all completely seized with what their resilience is economic

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:19:54
resilience, social resilience, all this stuff and Jeb, we’re going to come to you next, because you’ve been in this game.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:20:01
I I don’t want to say this because we’re about the same age, but you know you’ve been in it for a while, and you did of course, found the International Council for Local Environmental issues which was really a precursor to notions of resilience and we’re gonna as I

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:20:12
said have them next week. But here you are now in the sort of a next iteration of resilience.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:20:17
Work or working globally, so given us a sense from your perspective, where you think the discourse is, and have we made the progress that we need to have made.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:20:29
I know the answer is probably No, but you know what I mean.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:20:30
Give us a sense of where you think

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:20:31
Well, actually, I think the understanding is, is deep and rich, and it’s across all sectors.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:20:39
You know it’s and you know hats off to the social workers who brought the concept forward to us right?

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:20:46
So and child family therapy and social workers, the the understanding of resilience at that level of the individual and the family and the community comes from that, and then around 2,000.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:20:57
We realized. I remember I was advising the UN. Does that do you, Youndr?

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:21:05
UN disaster, response organization on creating making cities, resilience.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:21:10
It was 2,001, and so already people are trying to think about.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:21:13
Well, what’s this mean for cities, and urban planning and things like that?

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:21:16
So it’s been out there a lot, and I think even more importantly we’ve all had so many experiences, and I think you’ve Jen Jim, you’ve relate experiences Dan you relate experiences Julie you had a whole list of them from which we’ve learned from the

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:21:34
Disaster, events, and what it took to respond effectively from them.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:21:38
What we need to do in terms of preparedness. And I guess one thing I wanted to say, because I don’t know how many people are participating today who are from the disaster preparedness space or from the risk management space not just chief resilience officers, but chief risk officers and and their

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:21:57
Fold, but I think it’s important to contextualize this new language of resilience in the context of why, it’s emerged out of risk management.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:22:06
And so quickly this there are so many strains in the systems in our world, because we defunded government because we haven’t kept up with infrastructure investment because of climate change many many things that are resulting in a reality we live in in this century where we’re gonna see more and more of

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:22:25
These multi hazard events or multi-crisis events happen concurrently.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:22:32
So we just went through one. We obviously that’s a case in point.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:22:35
And now we have future scenarios for which all of the actuarial data, all of the data that drove us. Understanding.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:22:43
What’s the risk we’re managing. From the point of view of who’s exposed?

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:22:47
What’s the exposure, and what’s the probability that some events going to happen?

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:22:51
We can’t use that effectively any longer, so that whole part of risk management which is hazard analysis and understanding.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:22:57
The probability side of the equation is getting less and less viable, and that’s why I’m sure is you know, to your territory, Jim insurers are asking whether we can have an insurance market and in florida because probability isn’t something we can understand?

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:23:11
Any longer hazard and the interactions of hazards.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:23:15
We can’t understand them. So where does that leave us?

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:23:16
If you’re in the disaster, preparedness, space, and the other part of the equation is vulnerability.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:23:23
So it’s probability times vulnerability. So we need to understand vulnerabilities much more richly, and put our resources there so we’re taking what we’ve learned from the back end of things we haven’t responded to and we’re saying now actually risk management is vulnerability

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:23:38
Reduction, part of that is adaptive capacity as part of vulnerability.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:23:43
Part of the equation. And so I think to come to the point.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:23:47
Where is it at, I think, what happened with us in resilience?

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:23:49
We’ve created this kind of whole movement in this jargon, and it’s a little mystical right.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:23:53
So we have this I know, and Rock Miller found it was even hard for some of the people at Rockville are saying, What are you talking about?

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:24:01
And you’re probably with you, Jim, as a as an agent of this discourse in Miami.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:24:06
Dick County, you got the same response like, What is this language?

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:24:09
But really it comes back to basic risk management. We need to be in the business of vulnerability, reduction, and adaptive capacity building and we’ve known this for a long time i’ll go back to my eclipse one of the first case studies the row correctly was at kobe

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:24:24
earthquake in 1,995. And what did they conclude from Kobe?

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:24:27
It was these local neighborhood groups to your point, Daniel.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:24:30
Was these local neighborhood groups that actually did the disaster response.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:24:34
And then they institutionalized it in the city they created an institution of, you know, local community groups.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:24:40
That sort of manage risks in the community. We’re doing it now with recently at subsets.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:24:45
The movement. We’re in the middle of now in a rural context, and 2,000 2,001 early, 2 thousands.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:24:52
I started working with women’s self-help groups, microcredit groups in rural India, and huge networks, 60,000 women and one network of women’s self-health, and one of the largest historical earthquakes in south India happened the boosh earthquake and

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:25:07
Flattened 3,000 plus villages. It was those groups who both responded to women’s groups who had no status meet women in rural India.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:25:16
Don’t have a lot of status in their own right.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:25:18
But it was those organized groups that were effective respondents, and then that when all the institutions failed to get reconstruction money out to the villages to rebuild Homes we’re totally ineffective it was the women’s groups that became the interlocutors between the village and the

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:25:33
Money, sources and State and in Federal government in India, so we’ve learned it over and over and over again, and you know, in a way it’s kind of like.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:25:41
Why is it taken decades to do so? I I think because we’ve largely many of us in the world have been sheltered from these shocks, but the evidence is is profuse sneaking and so let me close with 2 observations in terms of what it means I mean obviously we’ve talked about

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:25:58
Multi benefit design, you know. So every dollar we spend to develop or repair infrastructure, we have to think about vulnerability.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:26:05
That’s a key thing and I think resilience design process is is making.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:26:09
It is headway. We need to respect to your point, Daniel.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:26:13
Mary, all of us think for the same hymn she.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:26:18
We need to understand how central these community networks are in community groups are in the context of sparing lives and reducing costs of the disasters.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:26:28
We’re gonna get hit by so like go back to Kobe.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:26:33
Kobe learned something. We need to learn it in our cities around the world.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:26:35
And then the last thing that I learned from Covid because we were involved quite a bit in helping cities with their cover.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:26:42
Recovery plans in the last few years. Is that there there’s this whole train of things people want to do in cities.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:26:49
Gary. In our case bike lanes in Toronto’s like so Danny and our longtime colleague spent 20 years trying to advocate that we should have a real Bike Lane system in Toronto all of that stuff was on the books and when the Covid

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:27:04
Crisis happened. Oh, my God! Did we build bike lanes everywhere so if we can learn from that as well that we have these proposals, we’re trying to push through a system that don’t have enough support yet but we need to help articulate what the resilience value is of doing some of these

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:27:19
Things what’s the reasonliest value of investing more in community centers, etc.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:27:24
Etc. Etc. And you know, I think, that whole enriched the notion of what is the value of investments that there’s resistance to.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:27:33
So let me leave it at that for now. But thanks for organizing this

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:27:34
You know, thanks, Trev. I mean just listening to you guys, the the dilemma and gal, the dilemma that we’ve got here is that and I think it’s fundamentally such a problem is that these are long term investments.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:27:47
And we’re all dealing with short term political windows, and it’s so difficult, isn’t it, to shake out the investments that we need.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:27:58
And, as you say, and I, I I don’t want us to depress everybody.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:28:02
We don’t want to be depressed on a Tuesday, but, as you say, we’ve known some of this stuff for so long.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:28:08
I I have a question for generally for the group, and I’m gonna ask everybody to open your mics, and we can, all and some people are already putting questions in the chat which I’ll relay but one is this this d dynamic between efficiency we somehow fell in love with the efficiency.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:28:21
35 or 40 years ago, and we decided redundancy was bad.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:28:28
Any efficiency and lean process was good, and then all the time is some kind of an event or shock that knocks peep some people out and we don’t have the capacity to be able to rebound.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:28:42
So do you think we can? I’m gonna ask you, Julie?

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:28:44
This question: can we restore our understanding of the value of redundancy? Get rid of the pejorative nature, call it something else so that we can bulk ourselves up so that we can cope with whatever do you guys talk about that in your domain Julie first

[Julie Drolet] 12:29:04
This might be a little bit outside my my area, but I do think that what we’re seeing is that to build resilience we need to invest in the delivery of social services and programs that can help build that capacity at different levels and so some of my work looks at social development, perspectives and how

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:29:23

[Julie Drolet] 12:29:29
We can bridge together social, with economic and environmental dimensions together, and also, I think, investing in social protection.

[Julie Drolet] 12:29:38
So you know we have seen some evidence of this during the Covid pandemic in Canada, and so part of this is, you know, opening up some new conversations, and really thinking about those kinds, of investments and how they can contribute to greater resilience, because like like Jeb was

[Julie Drolet] 12:29:59
mentioning climate risks are are shifting or changing, but they’re also affecting people in different ways.

[Julie Drolet] 12:30:05
Not everyone is affected by these events in the same way.

[Julie Drolet] 12:30:09
So we need to also create greater collaborative work at the community level.

[Julie Drolet] 12:30:14
Move away from top-down approaches, and really think about what do these diverse impacts?

[Julie Drolet] 12:30:20
Looks looks like look like, and how they affect disadvantaged peoples and disadvantaged communities in greater ways

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:30:26
I was gonna ask you actually what your rising reaction was to Jeb’s notion of use of the term vulnerable, because I am a concerned that out of this process and you know there’s a whole community of people that hate the term resilience because they feel what it’s doing is

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:30:42
just basically giving license to put another group through a hardship to show.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:30:47
Well, look how resilient they are, and the vulnerability piece doesn’t speak to the assets.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:30:53
In fact, all of us here are actually coming at this. I think, in terms of building the assets of people to be able to work together to respond right.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:31:04
So! What do you? Is the term vulnerable vulnerability?

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:31:07
Use, Julie, in your in your domain, or is there a preferred term you’re using

[Julie Drolet] 12:31:10
Yeah. No, that’s a great question, and I would say in social work we look at a variety of social identity factors, you know.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:31:18

[Julie Drolet] 12:31:20
So if we think about interestality and what that looks like in at a theoretical level, it includes a variety of identity factors, age, gender ability, culture, ethics, background, immigration, status many different factors, of diversity.

[Julie Drolet] 12:31:38
May contribute to how people experience different events, let’s say in in their lives, and you know some of those factors can be positive and assets, and then other aspects they might present more challenging areas or or come up as barriers and so I think you know in looking in in from my

[Julie Drolet] 12:32:00
perspective and social work, I would say in some cases the term vulnerable and marginalized populations.

[Julie Drolet] 12:32:07
Communities are used, but maybe more thinking about disadvantaged individuals or groups.

[Julie Drolet] 12:32:12
Again, looking at those diverse identity factors because one of the things that I’ve seen in my in my research in British Columbia, looking at some of the impacts of wildfires in rural communities is that the impacts are very different from one community to the next in the same wildfire season

[Julie Drolet] 12:32:30
and some of these communities are, you know, a 100 kilometers away from one another, so you know we can’t have sort of top-down tailored approach.

[Julie Drolet] 12:32:41
To say, this is what recovery looks like. We really need to understand what?

[Julie Drolet] 12:32:44
What are those assets? What are those strengths move away from deficit, focused approaches to really think about what?

[Julie Drolet] 12:32:50
What are the strengths and assets and abilities? And what what do community members bring in and thinking about recovery in different ways?

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:32:58
Right. I mean, I think that’s kind of what I was responding to around asset based.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:32:59
Very good.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:33:03
Go ahead, Daniel, we’re gonna chime in

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:33:03
Yeah, I sent a 2 finger on which really pointed out there several ideas.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:33:07
You know one is that the idea of vulnerability we’re always really careful in our research.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:33:10
There were to blanket statement to group X is vulnerable, because we’ve discovered in our research, for example, with the ebay show project in Japan that many elderly whom I assumed.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:33:19
Going in were vulnerable with the opposite. They’d already been through war and hardships without water.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:33:23
Electricity. For weeks of that months they were the ones ready in the 301 disasters in Japan to help bounce back and teach the younger generations how do you get water from mountain streams and make sure it’s clean when you go to the bathroom when there’s no

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:33:33
Bathrooms working. You know. How do you deal with a lack of wi-fi and other things?

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:33:37
So we’re very careful with that term vulnerability to make sure typically what we see is as Julie said.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:33:41
This intersection. So it’s not just being elderly by itself.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:33:44
It’s being elderly and isolated socially, as you said already, Mary, that was what we saw with the work from Kleinberg.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:33:51
Right. Eric Kleinberg’s work on Heatwave pointed out.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:33:53
It wasn’t just being elderly or being poor.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:33:54
He was being elderly, poor, and socially isolated.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:33:58
That combination then put people over the edge for being at risk a second idea you mentioned before efficacy, efficiency, and redundancy.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:34:05
I would argue actually the problem we have in our society this North America is cost-benefit analysis versus social benefit analysis, cost benefit, says we could build this new sea wall, we could build this new concrete structure to keep back to the the the water or we could figure out the social benefits

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:34:20
From building more bottom up, infrastructure like libraries, parks, community centers that will help build collective action.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:34:27
And actually, I’ve got a paper coming out shortly that tries to argue both monetarily, and in terms of mortality.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:34:33
For example, building a library building. A community center is just as valuable.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:34:37
In fact, as building a seawall in many communities, because the social spillover effects that come out of that social infrastructure are comparable to what you get from saving that say 215 lives by having 4 more feet of concrete, in the wall so I think it’s

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:34:40

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:34:44

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:34:50
Not redundancy per se. That’s the problem. But this question of How do we measure the benefits from these networks?

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:34:56
How do we understand social infrastructure again, parks, libraries.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:34:59
This is that build connections versus, let’s say, physical infrastructure, large-scale projects built by governments to keep out water

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:35:05
You’ll be keen to see that paper because we are working with libraries across the country about this this notion that built the James Jim mentioned about resilience Hubs you know then we saw during Covid that these places became just pivotally important I question that my colleague

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:35:22
Robert puts posting in the chat. He’s in Calgary.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:35:24
He’s asking, you know, if, in fact, you’ve had the kind of resilient infrastructure that did Daniel, you’ve been calling for since you serve your scholarship and Jeb and Jim you’re involved in this through a 100 resilient cities if you had had that in

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:35:38
Place would we have manage Covid differently? What do you think, Jim?

[James Murley] 12:35:45
Wow! Running Covid, I think, is the is the challenge.

[James Murley] 12:35:51
I I think that it was so pervasive it touched every instruction, you know.

[James Murley] 12:35:56
Educational message, employment, transportation, I mean it. It it.

[James Murley] 12:36:03
It didn’t leave anybody untouched in terms of its impacts.

[James Murley] 12:36:07
And I think everybody was scrambling because we were all vulnerable, and we didn’t complete we didn’t have any track records under.

[James Murley] 12:36:16
Understand, how to address it. I mean they we had professionals giving advice, but in terms of societal understanding and leadership.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:36:20

[James Murley] 12:36:27
There was a lot of lacking

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:36:28
And if you hear, if you’d had an infrastructure in place just a second, I just want to push for Miami.

[James Murley] 12:36:32

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:36:35
First if you’d had some infrastructure in place, would it have made a difference?

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:36:38
And what kind of infrastructure would have been useful

[James Murley] 12:36:42
Well, I mean infrastructure to us. I think the classic definition and we’re a large county. So we are.

[James Murley] 12:36:50
We provide all of the basic infrastructure for our citizens and visitors.

[James Murley] 12:36:56
We can keep that running. But if if the users are our you know, displaced from their normal lives, then everything we’re our our whole structure is, you know, our our financial structure, you know, because of view the people are in a consumer society if they’re not spending money then sales tax goes

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:37:08
How’s that? The window

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:37:11

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:37:17

[James Murley] 12:37:17
Down. If if the community is is basic foundation economically starts to become uncertain and then investment goes down.

[James Murley] 12:37:27
Then sort of the profit taxes. I mean the the reason we had.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:37:29
I know

[James Murley] 12:37:31
Such enormous relief programs many, not well fought out, but unprecedented in terms of the amount of money that the Federal Government put out is because they they just basically had no other alternative but to send money.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:37:44
You know what else to do. Yeah, I mean, I hear you

[James Murley] 12:37:45
I didn’t know what to do, and some of that money is still sitting in accounts and local governments in Florida.

[James Murley] 12:37:51
I know, and hopefully we’re putting it to good use.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:37:55
It doesn’t appear to be it doesn’t appear to be sitting in local government accounts in the account, and Canadian cities.

[James Murley] 12:37:55

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:38:01
It seems to be, perhaps sitting in personal accounts

[James Murley] 12:38:03
Yeah, well, I yeah, but I mean really, if you look at the numbers, there’s there’s never been I mean it makes the infrastructure bill that we pat that the Congress pass.

[James Murley] 12:38:13
To help us look like minor in compared to the billions trillions of dollars that flowed because we had no certain path forward to deal with that the the uncertainties, of the pandemic

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:38:24
That’s a kind of. That’s a kind of disturbing thing, a as you say.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:38:28
All the money that we ended up throwing at something as opposed to what we might have intentionally plan Daniel first, and then to Jen. Go ahead, Daniel

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:38:36
Yeah: just start 2 2 thoughts on on James points, and one is we actually the paper coming out in a month with Courtney Page, 10 and summer, Marion, with the wrestle saves foundation the exactly looks at this question.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:38:46

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:38:49
Was what happened in communities with more or less trust to be behaviors that we know saved lives, and the bottom line for that paper is, that the community with more horizontal trust.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:38:56
They knew their neighbors. They work together, and more vertical trust to their decision.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:38:59
Makers. They had more protective behaviors, that is, they wore masks, they socially distanced.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:39:04
They say that of outside behaviors. We’ve got another paper coming out with Tim Fraser.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:39:08
We show at the regional and national levels communities after vaccines came out that had more trust, had more uptake in vaccines.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:39:14
That is, they took on the vaccines because they believe the information they’re getting from people like Fauci and so forth.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:39:20
Other communities with less trust vertically and horizontally.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:39:22
Those are ones that, in fact, didn’t take up the vaccine.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:39:25
So we actually have almost like a natural experiment here across, at least in in in North America, in sorry in the United States, at least, we have very, very different kind of communities.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:39:33
With levels of trust in the government and each other, and and we saw Covid outcomes that directly came out of those.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:39:36

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:39:38
I think we had next make a 90% of the variation in outcomes predicted on this question of social capital and trust

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:39:44
And do you go ahead, Ken.

[James Murley] 12:39:45
Yeah, look, this is such total and politicized now, right?

[James Murley] 12:39:48
We don’t politicize emergency management that that is, that is bipartisan.

[James Murley] 12:39:52
Is everything, this whole dealing with the pandemic has become a political divisive issue, and it is so having rapid business in our election.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:40:00
Isn’t that interesting? Yeah.

[James Murley] 12:40:03
So I don’t know how. Put that in the context of Brazilians or anything else.

[James Murley] 12:40:07
There’s nothing that I know of in my you know they they compare to what happened to the to the way political leaders decide to use that issue.

[James Murley] 12:40:14
I’m President.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:40:14
Yeah, it’s so interesting a nobody fights by building a bridge or building a wall. But when it comes to actually something that affects them as personally as a vaccination or whatever yeah, it’s a really interesting point you’ve made Jim, go ahead, Jeb

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:40:26
Yeah. So back to this thing of vulnerability. Because to me it’s very core to.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:40:31
So I’m very involved in creating standards around climate, adaptation, and investment.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:40:35
Now on an international basis, and it’s interesting.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:40:41
The discussion vulnerability, the vulnerability, measurement, is at the heart of what we call climate adaptation.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:40:45
I’ll speak to it so in no way in my using the term am I suggesting there’s a label for a group as a vulnerable group or not a vulnerable group when you do an investment to adapt to you know climate.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:40:58
Risks that are emerging. You look at the vulnerability of a building.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:41:02
You look at vulnerability or Hvac system, you look at vulnerability of the bridge.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:41:06
You could look at the vulnerability of certain groups, but you never do it as a blanket assumption, and this is the challenge of doing resilience work for each investment.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:41:15
You make to adapt to climate, or to address any future harm.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:41:20
Scenario. You have to evaluate specific to the project site and specific to the stakeholders affected by it.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:41:28
Who’s gonna suffer? What kinds of harms and losses under what scenarios that may emerge, and then with climate is a great exemplar of how we’d move from predictive values and understanding what those arms and voices would be to the world it Jim works in in particular who

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:41:47
Knows which climate scenario is going to emerge in Miami, dead County.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:41:51
Next 20 years. We do know certain things. There’s going to be increased flooding, because it’s already happening.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:41:55
But we don’t know how things are going to interact with one another.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:41:57
So if we can’t and I’m happy to accept other words that for some reason and another sphere vulnerability has come to mean something else.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:42:07
But here’s important. If we’re trying to link up with a disaster, risk management world, it’s gonna be hard to throw vulnerability out, not because it’s a label that they’ve attached to anyone but because it’s actually a critical measurement, and understanding what we should

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:42:22
Be doing with their dollars and investments. So it’s an interesting debate, and we probably don’t want to have the the whole, or I’m taken by that

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:42:26
Well, maybe it’s it’s maybe just a point for you in your world just to flag this, that it can be heard as a abnegation of the inherent assets and strengths of the community that you’re putting into that category right

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:42:31

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:42:42
A part of vulnerability is adaptive capacity, which is assets of strength.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:42:46
So so. Anyway, I mean that is a big emphasis of what we’re looking at when we do.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:42:47
Yeah. Yeah.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:42:51
Vulnerability, assessment, but in that case in my world working with developing country contexts and things like that, I’m not coming across the sensitivity.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:43:00
So it may be more one that’s happening within our world or North America.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:43:02
Okay. No. It’s certainly with the equity conversation of which you know I’m I’m not the the qualified person to speak about.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:43:03
Yeah. Yeah.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:43:09
The the key thing is, we don’t throw away the the the critical task that needs to be done to understand how we move from a more actuarial close approach to risk management to one where we’re doing resilience investment work

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:43:23
Well, and I want to talk about the actuarial component. But, Julie over to you first, and then we’ll talk about money.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:43:28
Go ahead. J.

[Julie Drolet] 12:43:28
Hey? Thanks. I I just wanted to say. I think you know, going back to your question about infrastructure, and would that have made a difference?

[Julie Drolet] 12:43:37
I think one of the lessons that we learned in the 2,016 Alberta Wildfire recovery is that nonprofits and community organizations that move to electronic systems and adopted technology in their practice felt that they were better prepared to manage the shift to virtual or

[Julie Drolet] 12:43:57
remote work during COVID-19 so fort Mcmurray was a city of about 88,000 people, and the entire city population was evacuated in 24 h.

[Julie Drolet] 12:44:08
In May, of 2,016, with the wildfire, so a number of social service agencies, and community organizations and nonprofits were in a position where, if they wanted to maintain access with their populations they need, to make that shift remotely so I think you know in terms of

[Julie Drolet] 12:44:25
Investing in infrastructure and thinking about community practice.

[Julie Drolet] 12:44:29
We’ve seen the increase in the use of technology during Covid.

[Julie Drolet] 12:44:32
I think that we’re seeing that this is continuing in different forms with blended approaches.

[Julie Drolet] 12:44:37
And this is something that will continue on the topic of kind of looking at climate risks, and notions of vulnerability.

[Julie Drolet] 12:44:44
I’d like to bring in environmental justice into our conversation today because I think you know what we’re seeing now as well, is that with environmental justice, even if we are able to identify those who might be disadvantaged or face those heightened risks if we don’t

[Julie Drolet] 12:45:01
Adopt an environmental justice component. It doesn’t mean.

[Julie Drolet] 12:45:05
It means that people don’t have the power or ability to seek the kinds of solutions to address the problems that they’re experiencing.

[Julie Drolet] 12:45:14
And so this unequal and differentiated positioning can place some very heavy burdens on those who are are at risk or have less power to be able to address some of these root causes so I just like to bring this into our conversation.

[Julie Drolet] 12:45:30
Because we certainly saw at the recent Cop conference discussions on climate, justice, and in social work we take the position that social justice is environmental, justice, and climate, justice.

[Julie Drolet] 12:45:42
And so how we can integrate social and economic and environmental justice into this conversation, I think, is critical

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:45:50
You know it it it absolutely is, and it’s interesting again.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:45:53
Going back to just another shadow for my sister, who who you have that whole your discipline sees things from the whole.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:46:02
You. You do, and you understand that a a person’s contentment and their evolution is dependent on a whole bunch of factors.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:46:10
And I really appreciate that. And I we often. I often think that the social work approach is what we need in terms of main streets or neighborhoods.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:46:19
We need that kind of case management holistic approach as we look at neighborhoods in their capacity to be resilient I want to ask a question about money and decentralization, because I struggle with this that we are all working in environments that are highly centralized both Daniel and Jim have described Fema and

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:46:41
The lock step of emergency management, we’ve got the same situation in Canada where disaster relief is held federally.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:46:50
And yet I think we’re all talking here about incubating local solutions, local capacity.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:46:57
So how do we square that? How could we? I’m gonna go to you first, Jim.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:47:02
How could we imagine getting more money to be under the control of local something or others?

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:47:09
Who could then invest in the way that they think’s appropriate as opposed to the way it is now which is petitioning up the up the scale.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:47:17
And maybe, Jeff, you can comment, because you’re working around the world.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:47:19
Maybe there are places that are doing this, Jim, and then Jeb

[James Murley] 12:47:22
Through an hour level. We’ve formed a real strong partnership with our community foundation.

[James Murley] 12:47:27
The Miami foundation. They were a partner from the very beginning and developing the resilience strategy they continue to be a partner, but you know domestic, this country, and the State government can sometimes be very slow to react to new situations and the philanthropy flow of dollars can

[James Murley] 12:47:48
sometimes be directed very quickly, and by the way, my mayor, who I report to Danielle Levine kava is a social worker, and she has 4.

[James Murley] 12:47:58
E’s, that she operates under equity, environment. Economy and engagement.

[James Murley] 12:48:04
And our budget, our our 10 billion dollar budget, is organized around those 4 E’s.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:48:10

[James Murley] 12:48:11
My strategic plan from my office is organized around those 4 E’s.

[James Murley] 12:48:14
So we in in big old whoever’s on the top, and who sets those values is going to have a big impact and having a big impact.

[James Murley] 12:48:25
In a large government, is how you spend your money. So we have, you know we spent a lot of money on physical infrastructure, but we also try to find ways to get money to our community based organizations.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:48:29

[James Murley] 12:48:39
They can more easily and work with some of the communities.

[James Murley] 12:48:45
Again, our communities are our unique, not maybe unique to all parts of the border land areas of large countries.

[James Murley] 12:48:53
But we are constantly receiving refugees constantly daily from Haiti and Cuba, and it’s do. We have to have a society disable to handle those changes within our community

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:49:11
Jim, let’s have the 4 e’ again. Equity

[James Murley] 12:49:14
Equity, economy, environment, and engage engagement.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:49:17
Autonomy, environment, and engaged great somebody asked for them.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:49:23
We’ll put them into the chat. Thanks, Jeb, comment from you in terms of

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:49:26
Yeah, so they I it. What it brings to my mind is 2 of our our programs, and how we’re trying to address this issue of getting more priority attention to and more resources too, and particularly communities things that in our under resource low wealth communities that are exposed so the first is when one of the

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:49:49
First big wildfires in Southern California occurred the Hilton Foundation approached us and said: And they’re building their foundation building almost burnt down.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:49:58
So they’ve had a great interest in, and what was going on there, and we started working with a set of partners first in Southern California on their exposure and vulnerability.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:50:11
If I can use the word to wildfires a which extreme events and that led to our establishing a program called the California Resilience Partnership, which is an alliance of actors from the neighborhood to the I’m gonna go through the list, you went through Mary earlier from the neighborhood to

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:50:30

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:50:30
the district, to the city, to the region, to the State government, and including the Governor’s office, which is involved in this partnership and over the last 2 and a half 3 years through the California resilience partnership.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:50:43
We’ve managed to do any number of things to make sure that mass critical messages are flowing both ways.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:50:51
We just did a huge landscape report for all of the regions of California, where basically we gave input to this State.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:50:59
They’ve just allocated 4 billion dollars to local community resilience planning.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:51:04
But they don’t know how to set that up. So communities can actually access it and use it well.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:51:10
So to design big programs for 1 billion dollar programs. They’ll be followed up with 10 billion dollars of project investments.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:51:15
So creating these alliances that touch on all the scales becomes critical just for people to get aligned about, and resources, and where the resources are needed then there’s a lot of work to be done and that often is the case between the municipality.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:51:31
The city or the county government, and the more marginalized neighborhood.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:51:38
That’s never been treated well by the municipality.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:51:40
So we have a resilient neighborhoods program. There are many programs like this in North America.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:51:45
I know, to give an example of ours. We have been working with one of the most climate expose areas of Houston, Northeast, Houston every time there’s any kind of a tropical storm it gets flooded it’s a black neighborhood.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:52:01
It was right.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:52:05
Find it was ignored. It’s nothing. The black neighborhoods and United States have gone through and what there’s programs all about is building an effective working relationship between that neighborhood and the people even in city hall who own resilience the people in sit in the planning department that own complete communities

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:52:24
program even between those organizations in the municipality in that neighborhood.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:52:28
There wasn’t a good working relationship. So I think a lot of the getting the resources to has to do first with actually getting effective working relationships and dynamics happening the kind of social work of urban of urbanism right

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:52:43
Yeah and and I if someone’s using the chat, what about trust?

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:52:46
I mean this is the dilemma you have communities that have been historically.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:52:47
Exactly: trust. Yeah. Yeah.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:52:51
Marginalized and wronged. It’s very, very difficult.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:52:52

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:52:54
And then you’ve got all the other barriers to identifying language barriers, cultural barriers, all sorts of resistance, and particularly post Covid.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:52:55

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:52:57

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:53:01
We seem to have a even higher degrees of distrust of government. So we’re in.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:53:05
We’re kind of digging ourselves out. I think. Here in terms of.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:53:11
That’s why I’m back there, Daniel, the point you’ve made again and again around local networks.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:53:14
When you ask people who they trust neighbors, I think all the score quite highlight. Right?

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:53:20

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:53:21
You trust your right and

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:53:23
And then and then typically City city a little bit lower and then regional lower and then national, is the lowest right.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:53:29
So we build trust, up for interactions, right people that we interact with regularly those people that we trust in our names.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:53:35
They may have the keys, or a house, or walk, or dogs together, or kids to go to school together.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:53:38
All of those are obvious ways that social scientists track the kind of connections that we have.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:53:41
If you’ve never met your your Congress person or your senator, it’s pretty unlikely you’re going to first think of them. When you have a problem.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:53:47
They might be the last person that you call after you try to work it out locally.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:53:51
Just want to add one thing to it. Both Jeb and James already said I was point out to city managers.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:53:56
We don’t need to give the same resources to the entire city it’s funny we have use the word equity, but I think we kind of misuse it.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:53:59

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:54:02
It’s not that every community for example, I live in Boston.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:54:04
It’s not that every community in Boston needs the same investments.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:54:08
Some need a lot more than others because of both historical and ongoing problems in those communities a historical that we’ve caused as a city.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:54:14
And I’m going that we’re not helping as a city.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:54:15
So oftentimes whether I’m working in Cambridge or Boston, San Francisco, I point out that we should be thinking about mapping these communities.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:54:23
Social resources once we figured out who is in the sense the Red Zones, the hot zones that don’t really have those connections that’s who we need to go in the same way.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:54:29
That Eric Kinberg pointed out the intersection between elderly poverty and elderness, poverty and and being alone was the red Zone.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:54:36
So I I completely agree thinking about investments. We don’t need coverage for the most, you know.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:54:40
Every person in the city. We need, especially in those communities that have historically been underserved.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:54:45
And now have that bigger gap between where they are holding in terms of trust and communities nearby that have always had a positive relationship with the decision makers nearby

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:54:51
And then the dilemma we’ve got the square in the circle is that you then have local councils that are in most cases elected by a particular neighborhood, and they aren’t as often willing to actually think about what the other neighborhoods need that might be different than that they’re

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:55:09
arguing on behalf of their constituency alone. Okay.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:55:10
Well, let’s talk. We’ve only got a few more minutes, and I just always want to give people a chance to sort of leave us with what you think.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:55:16
The priority could be before we get to that. I do want to talk about money.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:55:20
I want to know whether or not there are financial tools out there that could compel us all to make different decisions that would make our communities neighborhoods more resilient.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:55:32
Should it actually start to cost more, to do the wrong thing?

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:55:38
It’s a very controversial question, Jim. You must live with this in Miami all the time.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:55:44
And then Jeb

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:55:46
So they cost more to do. The movement

[James Murley] 12:55:46
Yeah. Well, you know everything. If you’re talking about the real estate investment that happens in any community, you know, it’s always a question of what is the value of the of of land and what is the you know the competition for that and in a coastal community you know that that’s sort

[James Murley] 12:56:10
Of all this lands. On the question of of Who’s closest to the water.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:56:14

[James Murley] 12:56:15
So we we live with that. I don’t think there’s a close community in the at least in this country that doesn’t have this kind of phenomena where Frankly the real estate values that may support the rest of the community are located right near the water they’re

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:56:30

[James Murley] 12:56:31
they’re creating a surplus for time revenue which the local elected officials have the right to use to support services that are further away.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:56:38

[James Murley] 12:56:40
So, yeah, that’s a trap, because you know it’s it’s a in terms of areas of vulnerability.

[James Murley] 12:56:47
There. They’re very vulnerable. So how how do you get out of that trap is not easy. We’re you know.

[James Murley] 12:56:52
We’re looking at everything from

[James Murley] 12:56:56
Well, you know we’re all dealing with the cost of insurance.

[James Murley] 12:57:01
That’s both government affected in the United States and in Florida, Florida handles the wind Insurance as a State, and obviously Federal government handles flood insurance.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:57:01

[James Murley] 12:57:11
Then the private market tries to to build in between. But that’s a pretty blunt instrument, and it remember it only lasts for a year, and then you get your policy renewal so it’s not like you’re making a mortgage.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:57:22
Right right

[James Murley] 12:57:24
Decision. So but it’s hard for government, I think, to do much more than that.

[James Murley] 12:57:29
We’re trying to use financing tools, they’ll allow us to.

[James Murley] 12:57:35
They’re basically general obligation bonds that allow us to.

[James Murley] 12:57:39
Pay now for investments, you know. That’ll pay back over a long term, and especially for things in terms of resilience.

[James Murley] 12:57:46
The local government’s here can put a bond issue on the ballot and usually succeed if they call the Resonance foundation

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:57:54
It’s interesting. Hmm: okay. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, there are some some people will spend for school schools, won’t they?

[James Murley] 12:57:55
Even our schools do that, so

[James Murley] 12:58:01

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:58:01
Okay, where it’s sort of the home stretch here, folks.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:58:04
So I’m gonna ask people just to quickly give us a comment about what you think.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:58:06
The the takeaway should be in terms of going forward to be more prepared, more resilient to those things.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:58:14
Jed, to you, then, Daniel, and then last, and not, never lease to you, Julie.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:58:18
So Jeb, Daniel.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:58:18
2 things. I don’t have an answer for it.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:58:21
The first one is we’ve learned through Covid, that we had a bunch of things that we’re good urban plan and urban practice that we’re being held up that actually served us to get through.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:58:34
The crisis. I think we have to go back and look at the inventory of all the other things.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:58:37
We’ve been trying to get done and ask ourselves how we can accelerate crisis.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:58:39

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:58:42
Moments are critical moments to accelerate, and so yeah, we don’t want crisis.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:58:45

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:58:47
We want to prevent people from suffering them but we’ve got to use them well, and then, just the last thing on the finance I you know land land land land value, capture a jet we can’t go on about it.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:58:57
But we allow land value to be captured by the private sector.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:59:01
It needs to be captured by the public sector to invest

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:59:05
Yeah, to a perfect topic for another day. As we look at how land use decisions are being made and transit, and all that and stuff to you, Daniel, and then clean up to Julie.

[Jeb Brugmann] 12:59:08

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:59:15
Go ahead, Daniel!

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:59:15
Yeah, the the message for me would be moving away from centered physical infrastructure investment.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:59:20
Seawalls, moving houses, and so forth into really building a social infrastructure because we know, using at least a social benefit analysis.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 12:59:26
Those paybacks are much higher.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:59:28
Huh! You heard it here first from Daniel. All direct.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:59:32
Thanks, Daniel, Julie, last word to you. It’s all about the people go for you

[Julie Drolet] 12:59:35
Yeah, it is about people and I think we’re going to continue to experience these interconnected crises.

[Julie Drolet] 12:59:42
And so we need to better prepare for them, and part of that is building relationships and moving outside of our silos and recognizing that everyone has a role to play in reducing these risks not just disaster and emergency management, professionals so we need to rethink how we work together

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:59:59
I think we need to come back for another panel and talk about how do we create those new kinds of reciprocal, trust-based relationships?

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 13:00:07
Because during Covid we had to do it and then I worry that we’re gonna go back to our own little narrow little way, and we’re gonna lose that muscle to reach out to somebody so thanks everybody for joining us great to see you again Daniel Jim nice to meet you Jev

[James Murley] 13:00:20
Nice to meet you

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 13:00:20
Always was great to have you enjoy. Thank you for bringing us really into a grounded place in terms of it’s all about people in the practice of what resilience really is.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 13:00:27
Inter iteration. It’s an inter relational piece, so thanks everybody.

[Jeb Brugmann] 13:00:33
Thank you, Mary. Thank you, Kate.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 13:00:33
We have one next week, happy Thanksgiving to our American print, and I’ll see you next next one. Thanks gang

[James Murley] 13:00:34
Thank you.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 13:00:36
Thanks, so much thanks.

[Julie Drolet] 13:00:37

[Jeb Brugmann] 13:00:37
Alright bye, bye.

[Daniel Aldrich (he/him)] 13:00:39
Bye, everybody!


Full Audience
Chatroom Transcript

Note to reader: Chat comments have been edited for ease of readability. The text has not been edited for spelling or grammar. For questions or concerns, please contact events@canurb.org with “Chat Comments” in the subject lin

From Canadian Urban Institute: You can find transcripts and recordings of today’s and all our webinars at https://canurb.org/citytalk

11:58:31 From Kate, Canadian Urban Institute To Everyone:
Welcome everyone! We invite you to say hello in the chat before we get started. Where are you watching from? Please change your chat settings to “everyone” so that everyone can read your comments
11:59:53 From Jason Yardley To Everyone:
Good Morning – My name is Jason, and I am a Masters of Disaster and Emergency Management student coming to you from Cochrane, AB.
12:00:05 From Jeb Brugmann To Everyone:
Hi Everyone – Jeb here from Resilient Cities Catalyst (based in Toronto). I look forward to the exchange.
12:00:47 From Claire Gram To Everyone:
Good morning. Claire Gram here from Vancouver.
12:01:00 From Julie Drolet To All Panelists:
Hello! Julie Drolet from Treaty 6 territory and the City of Edmonton.
12:01:19 From Daniel Aldrich (he/him) To Everyone:
Daniel Aldrich of Northeastern University in Boston, Massachusetts – excited to be here
12:01:28 From DONOVAN MORGAN To Everyone:
Good Afternoon, my name is Donovan Morgan and I’m joining from Jamaica.
12:02:09 From Kate, Canadian Urban Institute To Everyone:
HOUSEKEEPING:   We are recording today’s session and will share it online at canurb.org/citytalk-canada/ We hope this session is as interactive as possible, so please feel free to share comments, references, links or questions in the chat  Please change your chat settings to “everyone” so that everyone can read your comments.
12:02:13 From Astrid Arumae To Everyone:
Good morning, Astrid Arumae, Tamarack Institute – from Tiohtià:ke/Montréal
12:02:20 From Kirsten Frankish To Everyone:
Hello all! Kirsten Frankish from Woodstock, ON. Super pleased to be joining today!
12:02:21 From Michelle Groulx To Everyone:
Hi everyone! Michelle Groulx from Ottawa Coalition of BIAs (OCOBIA) Looking forward to this informative session!
12:03:31 From Shawn Parry To Everyone:
Evening, Shawn joining from Oxford, UK.
12:03:32 From Robin McPherson To Everyone:
Hi from St. Catharines. traditional territory of the Haudenosaunee and Anishinaabe
12:04:06 From Tannis Vine To Everyone:
Good afternoon! Tannis Vine from the Heart of Orléans Business Improvement Area (Ottawa)
12:04:37 From Kate, Canadian Urban Institute To Everyone:
On December 7, CUI is convening people across Canada for an online summit exploring how COVID shaped our cities and revealed urgent priorities. RSVP to “COVID 1000 and Beyond: Building Better Cities for a Robust Recovery” here: https://events.zoom.us/e/view/PoOLQnA9RXizRRFqGDtF6Q
12:06:11 From Kate, Canadian Urban Institute To Everyone:
Daniel P. Aldrich is a full professor of political science and Director of the Security and Resilience Studies Program at Northeastern University. He researches post-disaster recovery, countering violent extremism, the siting of controversial facilities and the interaction between civil society and the state.
12:06:16 From Kate, Canadian Urban Institute To Everyone:
Aldrich has held posts as a Fulbright Research Fellow and an Abe Fellow at Tokyo University and as an AAAS Science and Technology Fellow with USAID. Aldrich is a contributor to the New York Times, CNN, The Conversation, and the Asahi Shinbun, among other media.
12:10:58 From Kate, Canadian Urban Institute To Everyone:
James F. Murley is the Chief Resiliency Officer for Miami Dade County. He is responsible for securing the county’s fate over the next century as sea levels are expected to rise by at least one foot, and he has also been tasked with ensuring that the county is prepared for hurricanes, population spikes, and other sudden stresses.
12:11:05 From Kate, Canadian Urban Institute To Everyone:
Murley was also recently appointed to the City of Miami Sea Level Rise Committee and has spent over 10 years with the Florida Atlantic University, where he oversaw research on urban and environmental issues. He is a founding Board member of the American Society for Adaptation Professionals and a Fellow at the National Academy of Public Administration.
12:15:08 From Kate, Canadian Urban Institute To Everyone:
Do you have specific questions for the panellists? Post them in the chat, and we’ll try to answer as many as possible!
12:15:41 From Blake Poland To Everyone:
Great topic and panel. Thank you for organizing this. FYI, Our work explores these issues (community resilience) but from a critical relational perspective that seeks to avoid some of the problematic glorification of mutual aid that is endemic in this field, in favour of a relational accountability approach that seeks to increase the responsiveness of formal institutions to marginalized communities.

Poland, B., Gloger, A., Morgan, G. T., Lach, N., Jackson, S. F., Urban, R., & Rolston, I. (2021). A Connected Community Approach: Citizens and Formal Institutions Working Together to Build Community-Centred Resilience. International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health, 18(19). doi:10.3390/ijerph181910175

Morgan, G. T., Poland, B., Jackson, S. F., Gloger, A., Luca, S., Lach, N., & Rolston, I. A. (2021). A connected community response to COVID-19 in Toronto. Global Health Promotion, 17579759211038258. doi:10.1177/17579759211038258
12:16:55 From Kate, Canadian Urban Institute To Everyone:
Dr. Julie Drolet is Professor in the Faculty of Social Work at the University of Calgary and Project Director of the Transforming the Field Education Landscape partnership. Her research in the field of international social work focuses on disaster social work, immigrant settlement and integration, social protection, social development, and field education.
12:17:02 From Kate, Canadian Urban Institute To Everyone:
She has been recognized with numerous awards for her commitment to excellence in research, including a Canadian Foundation for Innovation Leaders Opportunity Fund Award, a Killam Emerging Research Leader Award, and induction into the Royal Society of Canada’s College of New Scholars, Artists, and Scientists in 2019. She is a registered social worker with the Alberta College of Social Workers (ACSW).
12:19:29 From Blake Poland To Everyone:
Could the organizers please change the settings to allow participants to copy from the chat? I wanted to have the full speaker bios posted here in one place alongside my notes from the conversation.
12:20:57 From Kate, Canadian Urban Institute To Everyone:
Jeb Bruggman has 30+ years’ professional experience working with local governments and with the corporate sector in 28 countries. In 1989-1990, he founded ICLEI-Local Governments for Sustainability. He served as ICLEI Secretary General from 1991-2000, establishing the first international programs on urban greenhouse gas management and the worldwide ‘Local Agenda 21” sustainability planning initiative.
12:21:04 From Kate, Canadian Urban Institute To Everyone:
Bruggman holds a Master’s degree from Harvard University’s Kennedy School of Government and a BA in Economics summa cum laude from the University of Massachusetts. His awards include the Millennium Award for Best Sustainability Initiative (2000) of the European Environmental Agency/Princes’ Foundation, and the 2007 McKinsey Award for best article of the year from Harvard Business Review. He is a Senior Associate with the University of Cambridge Institute for Sustainability Leadership, and author of Welcome to the Urban Revolution: How Cities Are Changing the World.
12:22:13 From Kate, Canadian Urban Institute To Everyone:
Hi Blake, sorry about that. The full chat will be posted on canurb.org/citytalk-canada/ in the coming days
12:22:31 From Blake Poland To Everyone:
Thank you Kate. Much appreciated.
12:26:09 From Blake Poland To Everyone:
But is there a fundamental flaw in risk management insofar as its prime directive is to manage the consequences of modernity without addressing the systemic drivers of climate catastrophe and ecological destruction?
12:27:39 From Blake Poland To Everyone:
And is the term ‘vulnerability’ problematic. (Racialized) communities and neighbourhood/community systems are made marginalized in systems designed to siphon and concentrate wealth. Vulnerability suggests the problem lies with those so labelled, as if vulnerability is a feature of individuals/groups.
12:28:08 From robert plitt To Everyone:
how might the negative impacts of Covid played out differently if the types of resilience infrastructure you are speaking about had been in place?
12:29:00 From Blake Poland To Everyone:
Yes to the point being made about what Janice Stein called “The Cult of Efficiency”…
12:29:53 From Caroline Taylor To Everyone:
When the pandemic started Windsor Ontario (which is an auto centric city) declared a city emergency and the mayor stopped our city buses from running. I thought this was a catastrophe in itself. The most vulnerable had no way to get their jobs.
12:31:48 From Blake Poland To Everyone:
We need community-CENTRED resilience that doesn’t simply offload responsibility from the state to marginalized communities, but instead holds systems and institutions accountable to being responsive to community-led resilience building efforts, so that what Caroline described as happening in Windsor would become unthinkable.
12:33:37 From Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC To Blake Poland and All Panelists:
12:34:53 From Kate, Canadian Urban Institute To Everyone:
Heat Wave: A Social Autopsy of Disaster in Chicago https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/H/bo20809880.html
12:36:31 From Blake Poland To Everyone:
In case it’s of interest to others, some of our work on the promises and challenges of setting up “resilience hubs” in Canada, working with faith communities and others: Murray, S., & Poland, B. (2020). Neighbourhood climate resilience: lessons from the Lighthouse Project. Canadian Journal of Public Health. doi:10.17269/s41997-020-00432-0
12:36:56 From Jason Yardley To Everyone:
Building resilience is a the forefront of policy and policy development, for instance, “building back better,” but is there perhaps a misunderstanding of what this means? I often think it is seen as finite as opposed to Dr. Aldrich’s concept of “bouncing forward,” which suggests we should look beyond traditional cost-benefit analyses and standard operational cycles to envision long-term, transformational change. How do horizontal links, who understand what is required to make the change, advocate and set their agendas in developing concrete policies that create the conditions to make spaces to build resilience?
12:38:00 From robert plitt To Everyone:
I guess what I am getting at is what have we learned from this ‘disaster’ and where should we be investing to be prepared for the next.
12:39:18 From Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC To Blake Poland and All Panelists:
can you send me your links mwrowe@canurb.org thanks
12:40:17 From robert plitt To Everyone:
Interesting – where does one invest to build trust?
12:40:22 From Daniel Aldrich (he/him) To Everyone:
12:40:41 From Daniel Aldrich (he/him) To Everyone:
12:41:03 From Daniel Aldrich (he/him) To Everyone:
12:43:17 From Daniel Aldrich (he/him) To Everyone:
Can we move beyond social vulnerability indicators which don’t capture social ties? We’ve tried to do so with a new indicator, SoCI (Social Capital Index): https://www.researchgate.net/publication/337813421_Capturing_Bonding_Bridging_and_Linking_Social_Capital_through_Publicly_Available_Data
12:46:19 From Carlos Delgado To Everyone:
What metrics/indicator tracking tool + performance measurement + impact reporting software these organizations uses to 1) monitor progress over time and 2) report on these to stakeholders
12:46:28 From Greg Spencer To Everyone:
Thanks for posting your articles Daniel. They are of great interest to the CUI. In particular, we are working on a project assessing the value of civic infrastructure in main street environments and how it relates to community building.
12:47:06 From Blake Poland To Everyone:
Would love to hear more about that work Greg.
12:48:14 From Greg Spencer To Everyone:
We can certainly connect on this. We are also working with Karen Chapple and are helping with a capstone course on this topic through the School of Cities at UofT.
12:48:39 From Blake Poland To Everyone:
Ok super. Some of our work has been funded by Karen & SoC.
12:49:02 From Judy Lincoln To Everyone:
Could you post the four “E”s again please?
12:49:32 From Kate, Canadian Urban Institute To Everyone:
Economy. Equity. Environment. Engagement.
12:56:59 From Miranda Jimmy To Everyone:
*with the exception of the arctic
12:59:38 From Kate, Canadian Urban Institute To Everyone:
Join us for our next CityTalk: “How Can Cities Respond to Climate Change?” on Thursday, December 1. RSVP at https://us06web.zoom.us/webinar/register/7916691292009/WN__Q3nsWZ8QBuiPbF2YN1uiw
12:59:46 From Blake Poland To Everyone:
This was a GREAT panel and discussion. Thank you!
12:59:56 From Kate, Canadian Urban Institute To Everyone:
On December 7, CUI is convening people across Canada for an online summit exploring how COVID shaped our cities and revealed urgent priorities. RSVP to “COVID 1000 and Beyond: Building Better Cities for a Robust Recovery” here: https://events.zoom.us/e/view/PoOLQnA9RXizRRFqGDtF6Q
13:00:10 From Jeb Brugmann To Everyone:
Kate – can you save all these comments for us?
13:00:17 From Jason Yardley To Everyone:
Very informative, thank you
13:00:23 From Claire Gram To Everyone:
More would be good!! excellent discussion.
13:00:24 From Kate, Canadian Urban Institute To Everyone:
Yep! The chat will be posted online in the coming days.
13:00:48 From Caroline Taylor To Everyone:
Thank you from Windsor Ontario