How Do We Bring More Diversity to Housing Policy?

Panellists discussed strategies for unlocking diverse housing development, and how community voices can be centred in the planning and design process.

5 Key

A roundup of the most compelling ideas, themes and quotes from this candid conversation

1. Colonial planning processes continue to harm communities.

Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga, a former diversity and inclusion advisor with the Halifax Regional Municipality, noted that modern land use requirements limit the number of dwellings per lot in Canada’s cities—a practice with roots in a colonial approach to property ownership which emphasizes individual property rights, rather than the communal multi-generational living scenarios which were common among Black and other racialized communities. 

Naama Blonder, an architect and urban planner at Smart Density, remarked that cities often continue to enforce the same time-consuming approval process for both 20-unit and 200-unit developments, a practice which disincentives the construction of smaller units which could make housing more financially and geographically accessible to underserved communities. 

2. The government needs spaces to hear directly from community.

Mariah Samji is the Executive Director of Infill Development in Edmonton Association (IDEA), a group that provides education and resources on infill development to the community and industry.

IDEA has contributed to several successful policy changes, including the addition of secondary suites, lot splitting, and becoming the first city in Canada to abolish parking minimums. To do so, they brought together stakeholders such as YEGarden Suites, Edmonton Federation of Community Leagues, and Edmonton city councillors into spaces where they could have frank conversations with many voices represented.

3. Community-based planning processes can create more accessible housing solutions.

In 2020, Halifax City Council approved the first community action plan for Beechville, a Black Nova Scotian settlement and suburban community within the Halifax Regional Municipality.

A community action plan is a process that supports residence in developing a vision for the future of their neighbourhood. As Chidzonga noted, such plans can ensure that resulting policy addressed the nuanced needs and assets. For example, Beechville has a proud and resilient community of elders who would like to age in place—a reality that is not addressed in current housing plans.

4. There are multiple heritages that must be considered in planning policy.

“Missing middle” housing has been opposed by advocates of preserving heritage homes in some communities. In response, Samji observed that creating an equitable balance between multiple heritages, particularly non-settler heritage, is a priority that has not yet been achieved. Samji noted that in Edmonton’s upcoming budget, there is an unfunded service package to have a citywide strategy conversation around a more inclusive perspective on heritage that centres Indigenous history.

5. Communities must be equipped with the tools to enact policy change. 

Without access to community benefits agreements or community land trusts, which have become popular in Ontario as a means of protecting community land, culture, and heritage, Chidzonga and his colleagues have used their “very limited policy toolkit” to find creative ways to insert more of the community’s voice and presence in planning decisions.

Chidzonga called on government leaders to reframe their relationships with community away from the traditional transactional nature, which is often based on extracting knowledge and resources, and shift towards a practice of generosity—one which recognizes local leadership and builds capacity to navigate bureaucratic processes.

Full Panel

Note to readers: This video session was transcribed using auto-transcribing software.  Questions or concerns with the transcription can be directed to with “transcription” in the subject line.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:00:17
Hi! Everybody! It’s Mary Rowe coming in from Toronto today, where I happen to be.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:00:22
I was in Calgary last week next week. I’m actually going East very excited to be hosting an importance.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:00:28
City talk on an issue that seems to be completely dominating the public discourse more popularly in terms of popular media, but also obviously for city builders across the country who have been struggling with the challenges of how we actually move forward at creating a more diverse and a more accessible housing stock

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:00:49
for a diverse populations and needs, and different kinds of ways to approach what it has suddenly become.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:00:56
What I’m calling the Gordian knot of Canadian urban policy, You know.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:01:01
How are we going to actually address, supply, and demand and access and quality and livability, and all the things that housing in the term of housing conveys so very appreciative to have the gang on today Toronto as you know as a traditional territory for a number of first nations including the

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:01:17
Mississaugas of the credit, the Haudenosaunee, the Chippawa, the Anishnabeg, and the Wendat peoples were subject to Treaty 13.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:01:24
I shouldn’t say we’re subject. We we work in the context of Treaty 13 in the Williams Treaty, and I know across the country various different approaches are being taken to how we actually embed Reconciliation and truth both sides of that equation into how we do all our urban life and all

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:01:40
city building, including particularly urban housing policy, couldn’t be more critical.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:01:44
So appreciate the people coming on today. The the sort of context for this work at Cui has been a series of city talks that we’ve done across the last 2 and a half years.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:01:54
Plus. We worked with the National Housing Council on the sort of evaluation of the National Housing strategy.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:02:01
I kind of looking at how stakeholders approached that we were.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:02:05
We’ve also been very closely involved with the Housing Accelerator Fund, which continues to be in development, and I work with staff in city government.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:02:11
Across the country who are trying to integrate their housing development plans with their transit plans and with their economic development future, and trying to see how we actually turn this system a little bit on on its head and try to speak specifically to what the local challenges are and how do we see provincial and federal

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:02:32
investments coming in to support what you in municipal government and in regional alliances can identify are the priorities.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:02:40
So we appreciate people coming in and telling us where they’re coming in from housing. Spin is as strongly. And then he was in Ontario over the last couple of days where the provincial Government announced a whole suite of changes we’re not going to unpack those in detail here

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:02:52
otherwise I know a number of you are dying to, but in the chat go ahead, and you know we’ll post some links to some of the stuff.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:02:58
It’s early days still, because the regs have just the legislation was just tabled on Tuesday.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:03:03
So the Regs are in development, and we’re all going to watch with great interest.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:03:09
And right behind Ontario, our BC. And I’m sure other provinces that are equally as starting to take action to see what within their jurisdiction, what levers they’ve got.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:03:18
And then, of course, we’re very interested. What Federal levers there are as well to support a addressing in a kind of collective way the challenges that we’ve got so with, that said please.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:03:30
Use the chat. Lots of people are. There’s always a whole parallel universe over there of people posting questions and answering each other’s questions.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:03:36
We’ve got some terrific panelists coming in from Nova Scotia, from Alberta, and from Ontario very, very appreciative to have their expertise, and they also have perspectives not only in the jurisdiction that they work, in but how what their

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:03:49
colleagues and peers are saying across the country, and and also my principal colleague, Leander Sando so Leander, can you put your camera on and I’m going to ask you to describe a bit for the beginning what our particular piece of work has been helping the city of Toronto.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:04:06
develop and sort of build out something called which is expanding housing options. In Toronto.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:04:13
To get at that infamous missing middle, and I’m hopeful that you’re gonna tell us a little bit about the process.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:04:18
What you’ve learned, what you’ve been hearing from stakeholders about it, and just give us a get of the layout there about the technical work you’ve been doing and what you’ve been what you’ve been absorbing and then i’ll ask the other panelists to jump

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:04:30
on to. And then we’re gonna have this big conversation about the whole question of whether we can create a kind of housing supply and housing access.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:04:37
That addresses diversity and accessibility. So over to you.

[Leandro G. Santos, he/him, CUI] 12:04:43
Hi, thanks, Mary! So essentially Ehan are expanding housing options and neighborhoods, is a city of Toronto initiative.

[Leandro G. Santos, he/him, CUI] 12:04:51
To facilitate more low-rise housing options in residential neighborhoods; and if many people, on the call, probably familiar with the concept of the Yellow belt, that’s this idea, or the essentially the right regulations in place for a large loss of residential areas in the city that

[Leandro G. Santos, he/him, CUI] 12:05:06
only permit single detached or semi-detached tone.

[Leandro G. Santos, he/him, CUI] 12:05:10
So it’s your low density neighborhoods.

[Leandro G. Santos, he/him, CUI] 12:05:12
What; Ehan is really looking at is, how do we open up these neighborhoods to missing middle housing forms?

[Leandro G. Santos, he/him, CUI] 12:05:19
Primarily in the form of multiplexes which fit within the existing scale of of those predominantly single detached homes.

[Leandro G. Santos, he/him, CUI] 12:05:27
But you can fit more units onto that same line. But housing cannot be considered in a vacuum by itself, so rightly so, and the work that we were doing with the city looked at the availability of local retail and services and that conversation actually expanded to consider cultural and

[Leandro G. Santos, he/him, CUI] 12:05:47
recreational opportunities as well. So, in regards to the work that we were doing.

[Leandro G. Santos, he/him, CUI] 12:05:51
See why I was content, contracted by the city to convene an advisory group, what we call the eon roundtable, as part of its equitable engagement, step strategy.

[Leandro G. Santos, he/him, CUI] 12:06:04
Does a record Does a recognition within the city and within, planning widely that traditional engagement methods.

[Leandro G. Santos, he/him, CUI] 12:06:08
Okay, are only really accessible to a small, privileged few.

[Leandro G. Santos, he/him, CUI] 12:06:13
So together we assume an advisory body made up of a diverse range of individuals representing community service providers, academia, and home builders really with the focus on learning about people’s lived experience in relation to housing access so some of the high level key takeaways that came out

[Leandro G. Santos, he/him, CUI] 12:06:32
of this process, and then the discussions of the engagements that the current housing system doesn’t meet the needs of equity, Deserving groups, limited housing options, tall and small, or large, single detached or don’t meet the needs of multi-generational households and

[Leandro G. Santos, he/him, CUI] 12:06:48
many families can’t afford single detached homes.

[Leandro G. Santos, he/him, CUI] 12:06:51
High housing costs. Also bars personal growth, development. So many newcomers have come to Canada, and because they’re paying so much on rent, they can’t afford to pursue higher education or get their professional credentials overcrowding is also a major issue for many households.

[Leandro G. Santos, he/him, CUI] 12:07:07
as families pool their resources together to live in in

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:07:22
not sure if the Andrew was freezing for everybody else or just me, me, Andrew, keep going.

[Leandro G. Santos, he/him, CUI] 12:07:23
But okay, so many people in the Round Table brought up the that we consider.

[Leandro G. Santos, he/him, CUI] 12:07:32
Oh, looks like My Internet connection is unstable. Okay? Okay, yeah, sure.

[Leandro G. Santos, he/him, CUI] 12:07:41
Okay, so beyond beyond thinking about physical character, roundtable members identified that really need to consider the social and cultural character of communities as well as diverse people.

[Leandro G. Santos, he/him, CUI] 12:07:58
If we’re really going to create equitable neighborhoods, this will allow us to create or identify the enabling conditions for culture, appropriate housing, multi-generational households, and the wraparound supports necessary as well as building a sense of belonging as of right

[Leandro G. Santos, he/him, CUI] 12:08:11
zoning seems to be a huge issue in many cities right now, and while it is crucial, that, as of right zoning and permissions for multiplex are put in place, there really is a dire need to develop affordable housing options as soon as possible and this could be done either 2 cooperatives

[Leandro G. Santos, he/him, CUI] 12:08:28
can be land trust, or alternative financing models, such as rent to own, and life.

[Leandro G. Santos, he/him, CUI] 12:08:33
Leases. This will really help us get to the goal of creating mixed income communities, improving, equitable access to neighborhoods, other things that we’re really identified were easy ability to challenges in and around, how houses and universally permitting local retail and services to create more walkable accessible

[Leandro G. Santos, he/him, CUI] 12:08:52
neighborhoods Another thing, brought up is the need for a place based approach to housing policy, really in collaboration with with marginalized communities, to to ensure that intensive fake intensification is done carefully with the goal of preventing the displacement of residents vulnerable to

[Leandro G. Santos, he/him, CUI] 12:09:12
development pressures. And while the eon roundtables, one piece of the equitable engagement puzzle, there really is a need for this on engagement with indigenous rights holders and equity deserving groups from the beginning of any process policy, process throughout and even after through implementation to ensure that policy

[Leandro G. Santos, he/him, CUI] 12:09:32
outcomes really do meet the stated goals and don’t have unintended consequences that can cause harm.

[Leandro G. Santos, he/him, CUI] 12:09:41
So the recommendations of the final report which have yet to be published publicly are really informed by combination of the equity deserving groups lit experiences combined with the technical analysis of city city of trials official plan and zoning bylaws and

[Leandro G. Santos, he/him, CUI] 12:09:56
it’s our hope that with these recommendations we can contribute to a more equitable Toronto.

[Leandro G. Santos, he/him, CUI] 12:10:01
And how housing System informing the necessary changes to city’s plans, policies, and regulations.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:10:10
thanks, Leander. We got the gist of it. I’m gonna suggest that the other panelists come on and expose their screens.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:10:24
And as usual, there is a lively conversation already erupting on the chat, and I see Nam has already typed in a reaction a response.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:10:30
So just for those of you sitting talkers who tend to lurk and never come into the chat.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:10:36
Think of what you’re missing. If you could see what we can see, you would see a very rich discourse.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:10:41
The other thing is, we take the chat and we reprint it, and people believe and not look at it subsequently to see Well, what was that that Abby’s later raised, or that Somebody else suggested was the solution so, it’s a little self-organizing problem.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:10:52
Soving community there, and we’re very appreciative of it to supplement what we’re going to hear from Mariah and Nama and Maps.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:10:58
So gang the e-on people Work was a sort of moment in time, in a place trying to get at some of these questions around missing Middle, and I’m interested in Android’s tall, small, single detached typology it’s not the same across the country.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:11:14
Obviously, but this notion that the market will left to its own devices, Not that the market is ever rooted up to its own devices, but that the market tends to generate a certain prevalence of stock what the heck’s gonna happen now with interest rates and supply chains and how is

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:11:30
that going to kind of be a choke point for what new supply will look like, or even what adapt and renovated supply will Look, like.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:11:36
We’ve all got those anecdotes about people who can’t find workers or can’t find trades or can’t find supplies.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:11:42
So it’s going to get tighter, and more complicated, and then, if that’s the case, what is the impact in terms of providing a wealth of options for a broad diverse market, and I don’t just mean purchaser market I mean people that need housing so i’m really

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:11:57
happy to have the 3 of you on, and including, Namas Baby, who’s 8 months old, who’s behind her, and might might make an appearance, you never know, and maps you’ve converted.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:12:08
You’ve gone from Hrm. To the province, and I’m really thrilled about that.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:12:12
I’m hoping that Nick is going to put your bios on so you can see that so important that we that people move from working in one context to another you know, I worked for a number of years in the us, and I saw in the us a lot of mobility of people working for local government then going

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:12:26
into industry, then going into the not for profit, then going into the State Government.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:12:30
We don’t do it in Canada as much, you know, we tend to sort of stay in one place.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:12:33
So maps. I’m really glad. Lucky province of Nova Scotia to nab you because you come out of the Hrm.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:12:38
Experience, and you’re gonna bring that perspective. And, Mariah, I know that you are the lone Albert and voice here, but I just love your job title.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:12:46
I love the fact that there’s somebody in Edmonton who’s directing infilla development like that is so important. I’m just very appreciative that we’re that the 3 of us get 3 of you get a chance to talk.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:12:55
To each other and that I get to be the interlocutor in the middle here.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:12:59
So if you’ve got questions, folks in the chat throw them in there, and I’m gonna go to you, first.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:13:02
Mariah. Just give us a your own sort of perspective about what you are kind of tackling, what the challenges are.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:13:09
And do you see some key intervention points, that you’re gonna that you’re doubling down on that?

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:13:13
You think where we could see some movement, so I’ll go to you.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:13:15
Then I’ll go to Nama and Maps. You’re doing cleanup.

[Mariah Samji] 12:13:19
Well, thank you so much for having me today, and I wanted to first kick off by saying that Yes, I am from Edmonton.

[Mariah Samji] 12:13:25
It’s a territory, and I’m so grateful to be able to live in Edmonton.

[Mariah Samji] 12:13:31
It is an up incoming city. It’s it’s vibrant, and we’re making big moves as an organization and as out of the city.

[Mariah Samji] 12:13:39
So I’ll give you a bit of background on idea, and what we do.

[Mariah Samji] 12:13:43
So ideas infill development and image and association. It’s an education and advocacy.

[Mariah Samji] 12:13:48
Grassroots, membership organizations that works with industry.

[Mariah Samji] 12:13:53
The city, city council and community around the rules and regulations, and removing the roles and regulations to allow for infill development.

[Mariah Samji] 12:14:02
The organization has existed for 9 years. Next year is our 10 year anniversary, and we are so incredibly excited about it.

[Mariah Samji] 12:14:10
The first 5 years of the organization we really focused on small scale, and Bill.

[Mariah Samji] 12:14:13
So when I talk about small scale info, I’m looking looking at secondary sweets, garden sweets, a lot splitting.

[Mariah Samji] 12:14:20
Semi-detached, and what’s really fantastic in Edmonton is all of that is allowed everywhere, and a part of that is because our organization works with others, partner groups like Yay Garden suites the Edmonton federation of community leaks as well as

[Mariah Samji] 12:14:37
I mean as Pali and other stakeholders to remove those barriers, and we found it very fruitful when we come together in rooms I I think before idea existed we were very separatist.

[Mariah Samji] 12:14:51
We couldn’t we couldn’t, be in the same room, but couldn’t hear from each other.

[Mariah Samji] 12:14:55
Part of that was, people were nervous, and part of that were.

[Mariah Samji] 12:14:58
Some people were too loud. Weren’t creating space for others, voices to exist.

[Mariah Samji] 12:15:03
And so that has been really phenomenal. To see our cities change over that time in the past 5 years.

[Mariah Samji] 12:15:10
We’ve also got rid of parking minimums, which is fantastic.

[Mariah Samji] 12:15:13
We were the first Canadian city to do so, and that was a multi-pronged push.

[Mariah Samji] 12:15:21
So once we got to public hearing, we had one person in opposition, and 10 people speaking in favor.

[Mariah Samji] 12:15:28
And if you asked any of us the year before, we would have thought it would at least would have been the opposite.

[Mariah Samji] 12:15:38
But it takes leadership from all the different stakeholders to come together as an organization, and then bringing together voices, especially around missing middle development.

[Mariah Samji] 12:15:49
It’s about having those uncomfortable conversations together, and it’s where I’m really excited about Edmonton.

[Mariah Samji] 12:15:56
We found that. Yes, we’re not always on the same page, or we might not always understand each other.

[Mariah Samji] 12:16:02
But we’re willing to hear from each other

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:16:09
so interesting about that. I I’m interested. If you were to reflect back and say you sort of did, You said there are a couple of key things like you eliminated partking you eliminated parking minimums.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:16:19
But this also this phrase, which I think lots of people are apprehensive about Where you.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:16:23
Say everything is allowed now everywhere, and I mean I obviously there are some people who are gonna.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:16:31
I mean, this is what I think Ontario is in shock from that.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:16:34
Perhaps this is what we provincial government is sort of ushered in is that everything’s going to be allowed everywhere and, you know, kind of like unleash hell and what’s in here is that for you’re saying that in Edmonton.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:16:47
Somehow, if you identified some of these key obstacles, it just enabled a kind of innovative kind of innovative collaboration.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:16:54
Am I speaking that well, correctly.

[Mariah Samji] 12:16:55
Yeah. And I I should say that, like the changes that we’ve made, we do it with a longer engagement process.

[Mariah Samji] 12:17:05
So when we looked at the parking requirements, they did a year long study as a city around different times of the year.

[Mariah Samji] 12:17:13
Often we hear in Edmonton, we’re a winter city.

[Mariah Samji] 12:17:15
There’s no way. People will bike in the winter, even though they completely do.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:17:18
Yeah, I know.

[Mariah Samji] 12:17:22
And we saw that as a city we were over built in parking by 60%, and even on hi holidays, even in times where people thought for sure.

[Mariah Samji] 12:17:34
Boxing Day, so it’ll be no parking. There was parking everywhere.

[Mariah Samji] 12:17:38
You you just it wasn’t right outside your church are right outside your mosque, or right outside your shopping center, or right outside, wherever you are looking to go.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:17:49

[Mariah Samji] 12:17:50
And so it wasn’t the problem of access. It was the problem of communicating where those operations exist.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:17:57

[Mariah Samji] 12:17:58
And so it was a year of study, and then it was 6 months of engagement, and then we went to our planning committee and you know we didn’t get it right on the first go we said let’s get rid of everything and then a month later.

[Mariah Samji] 12:18:14
We were like. Oh, no, we forgot about bike parking, and we have to have minimums for accessible parking.

[Mariah Samji] 12:18:20
And so because we had done so much work together we’re able to also identify that we went to far too fast, because we still need to think about those user groups that have needs, and we that need they’re not the exceptions they’re an important part of our community.

[Mariah Samji] 12:18:40
At so we went back and rectified that right away, but because we did it collaboratively, it allows for those types of changes to happen.

[Mariah Samji] 12:18:48
And we’ve seen that in some of our missing middle zoning changes and our new zoning file.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:18:57
You know I had dinner last night with Stephanie Kadju, who is the F.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:19:02
Is a Vc. Former Vcmla, who’s in a chair, and who is now the Federal advocate for accessibility, and people with disabilities, and She was making the point that so many, as you just suggested so many advocates on the urban side who want to eliminate car

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:19:16
use completely. Forget about People that. Actually do have a disability.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:19:20
That means that they have to get the car somewhere so she can get out of her car, do a transfer to a chair.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:19:24
So as you say, I I love the sequencing that you just suggested.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:19:28
So 12 months of study, 6 months of engagement, and I’m sure you were engaging when you were studying, and then you float something with an awareness that you might have to tweak it.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:19:39
You know this is the urban, the the whole story of pilots that we try some stuff, and that we’re not.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:19:43
We don’t. We’re not afraid of trying it.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:19:45
And then correcting it, if it isn’t quite right, okay.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:19:48
So now let’s go to you now from your perspective, your your an intervener of a particular kind, who’s trying to come up with sort of new solutions, new approaches, and I realize, intervening has a legal context.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:20:02
But I meant more in terms of you’re an instigator at trying to, you know.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:20:04
Kind of stir it up and figure out. Let’s try this. Let’s try that.

[Naama Blonder] 12:20:12
yeah, and and I think what you said, Maria, and what you said Mary about you know unleashed hell.

[Naama Blonder] 12:20:19
It’s very funny. I think it it. I don’t think it’s true, and I think at the same time we have a very long way to go.

[Naama Blonder] 12:20:29
So, you know, when we talk about anything that is, you know, density in your transit we’re not even near by understanding the potential of what that means, because transit is very expensive, infrastructure and and also within the missing middle I you know people tend to to you know see it as they those cute little

[Naama Blonder] 12:20:52
triplexes is the solution. They’re not going to move the needle enough, and we need to understand the city of Vancouver identified the missing middle, up to 6 stories Here in Toronto if you say anything Via beyond 12 meters which is like you know, 3 and a half

[Naama Blonder] 12:21:09
or 4 stories you are, you know, not welcome to participate in the discussion, so we need to understand that in the neighborhoods in those you know, isn’t it?

[Naama Blonder] 12:21:22
We discussed earlier the yellow bell. That was it very local term.

[Naama Blonder] 12:21:26
There’s a lot of potential and the main street of those neighborhoods.

[Naama Blonder] 12:21:31
I’m talking. If you’re familiar, in Toronto.

[Naama Blonder] 12:21:33
You know Christie Duffin lens down. These are completely yellow.

[Naama Blonder] 12:21:37
There are as wide as Blue College, and dandas, which are commercial streets, and yet you walk there, and all you have is, you know, single family houses, 2 story at most these streets need to carry more than just triplexes.

[Naama Blonder] 12:21:55
It’s not it’s not, gonna you know. We’re we’re not gonna move the needle with with just practices, although I just want to give credit.

[Naama Blonder] 12:22:02
Because I do think, it’s a really big step moving forward, and we need to start somewhere.

[Naama Blonder] 12:22:07
So you know when we talk about low-ized apartment buildings, we also need to understand that we cannot have the approval process for the 20 units and the 200 units the same approval process because guess what we’re not gonna see any 20 units you know, small scale lowers apartment buildings being

[Naama Blonder] 12:22:26
built, because they cannot carry the same approval process throughout, you know, paying for 3 years property tax consultants, like just the same, way and 11 story metrics, or it you know, 20 story tall, building would would have and that’s why in fact, you don’t see those in Toronto at all because

[Naama Blonder] 12:22:44
they just. They can’t make you to the finish line, so we need to maybe identify a new term.

[Naama Blonder] 12:22:52
The middle of the missing middle that is really on the You want to call it high end, but we need to to look into understanding then that because also, when I mentioned transit, do we need to also remember that these are very desirable neighborhoods that have good connection to to transit they have

[Naama Blonder] 12:23:11
streetcar. They’ll very well served, and not to mention like lovely neighborhoods.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:23:21
yeah, I mean, I hear you about the the you said cute little triplexes.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:23:27
I heard that and I I I identify with what you’re suggesting here that sometimes there’s this sort of sentimental notion that can get drifted in and I’m gonna be just to hear what maps.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:23:39
Will say, about this, because in cities where there are some choices being made to go toll where they can go to all, there are some cities that don’t have the seismic capacity or the topography, to go tall, but if there are some areas you know I worry a little bit that we draw a

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:23:53
judgment on people. There are some people who are quite happy to live on the seventieth floor, the sixtieth floor, and I don’t.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:23:59
I don’t know how I feel about us romanticizing one form over the other.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:24:03
That’s so. I’m I’m responding to what you’re saying.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:24:06
I’m about choices, and then the other piece that you’re getting at, which I think is crucial.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:24:10
Is this notion of scaling like? It’s an enormous, it’s an enormous numerical challenge, and this is one area where I think they have. I’ll be interested to see if the chat goes up on this but that you know where the advocates and the industry and the

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:24:23
regulators all seem to be agreeing that we are not producing the number of units, habitable units that we need in the country.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:24:31
And it’s a big honking number maps over to you.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:24:35
Province of Nova Scotia is in the house

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:24:39
Good afternoon, everyone. I’m here in Chibuktuk.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:24:43
Halifax, the traditional and unseated, unsurrected territory of the migma.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:24:47
People happy to be joining you today. I’m speaking from my experience in my time with Halifax regional municipality.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:24:55
I’m now in a role with the provincial government as the senior engagement strategist, but in my previous role as the diversity and inclusion advisor for Hrms planning and development Department I focused primarily on community engagement with our underrepresented and underserved

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:25:12
communities. And so I brought a non planners perspective to to the work that we were doing, and I use underserved and underrepresented intentionally that because I’m putting the owners on, us as you know, the public service, providers to better serve these communities who we haven’t in the

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:25:29
past and I know it’s just another language or or terminology that I’m just throwing out there in amongst marginalized minorities, etc.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:25:37
But I say this because there needs to be the recognition that not everyone has equitable service or equitable access to the services that we provide.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:25:45
So when I say under serve, that’s what I mean.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:25:48
When I say underrepresented. I’m speaking about our engagement practices Oftentimes decisions are made.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:25:54
4 folks on behalf of folks, and for many, many generations their communities, who have been sidelined from the decision-making process, intentionally, unintentionally, and many of these communities today, continue to experience the negative outcomes, of you know what would otherwise be some very well-meaning

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:26:15
planning practices, or or trends in in the planning world.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:26:18
So my work really was challenging in many ways in that I came into the department where we were confronted with a very serious and a very sudden reckoning with the fact that, for example, with our African Nova Scotian communities there we’re at risk of erasion entirely

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:26:37
and we were working with the community of Beachville.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:26:40
Mary, you’ll be familiar with with the work we did there in Beachville, and a little bit of history here, Beachville is one of the Oldest African Nova Scotian communities.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:26:48
In the province, dating back to 1813, and throughout the 19 seventies and the eighties, the provincial and the municipal governments encroached upon this community by encouraging industrial development in the area and significant residential development later on in the nineties and so the original

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:27:04
African Nova Scotian community was shrunk significantly through expropriations, tax sales, and not always considered to be fair or appropriate, and many of the original families have had to move away as a result but in recent years hrm has been working to address some of these historic

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:27:21
injustices that contributed to some of the social economic disparities we see in these communities and Council adopted the framework for an anti-black racism strategy to address these historic inequities and strengthen our municipal service delivery and that would have been in june

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:27:38
2,021. And with the primary responsibility landed on the doorstep of the planning department.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:27:45
So one of Hr’s most effective tools for bringing community priorities into municipal planning strategies and land use bylaws, and that could only happen through you know engagement.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:27:56
But something had to change about the way we were doing things.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:27:58
So in 2,020 I won’t get into the details of how we arrived at this particular juncture, although important at in 2020 Council approved Hrms.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:28:09
Very first community action plan for Beachville and a community action plan is a process that supports residence in developing a vision for the future of their neighborhood.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:28:19
So residents would identify the strengths and weaknesses, create a vision for the future of the community, and with the support of Hrm.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:28:25
Develop an action, plan to outline the process. So we work with the Beachville Community Development Association to understand the issues, the priorities and primarily to build relationships.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:28:37
And trust, and this ties into the conversation around housing diversity, because when we look at communities like Beachville, there’s an intersection of various crises, and you know the housing crisis, is just one of the many crises that just manifest in this particular community so you can imagine

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:28:56
you’re being bombarded, left right and center from all sorts of these, from all of these historic systemic issues.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:29:03
And when the when the housing crisis or solutions to the housing crisis isn’t framed in a way that represents or is responsive to, the needs of the community, ultimately the solutions don’t serve the community so when we see, a response to say the housing crisis, being one of quantity.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:29:19
quantity; quantity, quantity, and we’re not having the conversation around the quality of the housing around the access of how housing around the particular type of housing, we missed the nuances for example, beach, who has a community where there’s a very proud resilient community of elders in this

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:29:35
community who would like to age in place. But they’re not able to do that with the new housing that’s coming into play, and the new development that’s happening in the community.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:29:43
Much of it in effect, is erasing. Historic, beachful, and a lot of these these elders are being forced out of the community.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:29:52
Many of the young folks have already moved out of the community and something I’ll get into maybe later on.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:29:57
In the in the following question, is the nature of the new housing that’s coming into play in this community doesn’t speak to the social and the cultural.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:30:06
Fabric of Beachville, and that’s an issue it’s a very serious issue, because what we’ve seen is the absence of the community’s voice from the decisions that are being made ultimately results.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:30:19
In a community, landscape that’s moving in a direction without the community.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:30:24
And so we’ve seen most recently a major major Significant proposed subdivision.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:30:30
That’s already under development. There in in in a very small component of it. Essentially, it turns its back to the heart of the community, and I mean that in the literal physical sense, it’s set up in such a way that it turns it it’s back to the heart of the community so what does that say

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:30:46
about the decisions that went into, you know, creating this this matter, and with a whole host of other environmental impacts on the community as well, why is it that we continue to move forward?

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:30:59
You know, seemingly in the quote unquote right direction to alleviate this housing crisis.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:31:03
But who are we really leaving behind? Who who’s falling through the cracks?

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:31:08
And and why so there’s a lot of conversations that need to happen about the nature of the response to these housing crises and the housing diversity question, then, is one that we need to start having conversations with community about what does appropriate housing look?

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:31:26
Like? What does community centric engagement look like? And and I can’t wait to dive into the conversation around Afrocentricity, because that’s really what I brought to to our projects to our work.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:31:36
Was an aprocentric lens, and hopefully an aprocentric lens, or in in any of your your, your areas of work, a community centric lens can help us to realize the priorities of these communities the issues and the concerns and to address them in a way that’s inclusive and

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:31:57
Cui was really privileged to work with you maps and your colleagues at Hrm.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:31:59
And the Beach Hill community and some of the other African Nova Scotian communities.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:32:04
Over the last year, where we came into, you know. Listen, and be part of a Ci local process.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:32:11
And our report on that is going to come out hopefully very soon.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:32:14
Lee Andrew you just saw is actually putting the finishing touches on it, and then we can have a robust conversation, because and just for the benefit of our listeners across the country.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:32:22
If you don’t know the history of the African Nova Scotian community, and and how you’ll you’ll read it about it in the report that will bring out but but it there are many many good references and actually i’m sure that my colleagues will throw some into the

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:32:35
chats that you can. People can dig around if you don’t know about it, because it’s a really vivid visceral tale.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:32:43
Cautionary tale. About how basically motions and movements.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:32:48
In fact, we’re racialized and sustained, encouraged and supported.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:32:54
Systemic a discrimination. And now it’s they’re trying to unravel it.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:32:58
And we walked that community and walked across 8 lanes of of highway that we’re just Blitz through at the core of those neighborhoods so this this is the risk of build.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:33:09
Baby build is, and it it’s true, across the country in all these neighborhoods, I think, is that if there is going to suddenly be what Bruce Katz was calling after Covid the Wall of money that’s gonna come and if it in Canada maybe it’s going to be a wall of money.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:33:22
Around new housing new housing, housing. How are we going to ensure that local communities are that that the development is tethered to local communities, and the local communities have.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:33:31
Input so I’m curious. Keep from Mariah Mariah.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:33:35
They all have idea envy here everybody wants an idea like you, like your organization in Edmonton, and I’m I’m wondering if you’ve got tips for folks about.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:33:44
How do you ensure you’re saying there? Everything can be built everywhere.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:33:47
Now Edmonton. But how do you hang on to the to the rudder, there to make sure that local community impacts, interest priorities, needs are front and sense and you don’t have the wall of money.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:34:00
Just sort of. Well, it’s in what thoughts on that.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:34:03
And then I’m gonna come back to you maps, because I think you’ve got a very culturally specific situation that that you’re trying a whole bunch of stuff not go to you, first, Mariah, and then and then back to maps

[Mariah Samji] 12:34:15
So I think something interesting that’s happening through Edmonton right now is we’re working on district plan.

[Mariah Samji] 12:34:21
So, taking our city and making it to 15 districts to hopefully create more walkable districts that meet your needs, and what we’re seeing through that process, and we’re seeing through some of the other processes that some community groups have have led is that we’re missing the gap in

[Mariah Samji] 12:34:40
creating an equitable balance between our heritage and not just one type of settler heritage, but multiple heritages, because, admitting historically, have it, hasn’t had that conversation and development and because we haven’t had that conversation city wide we we’re not creating space, to

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:34:47

[Mariah Samji] 12:35:02
be successful. And so what happened last year was we had one wealthy community come and say we don’t want density at all in this neighborhood, and it was on a transit line actually, I had 2 transit stops.

[Mariah Samji] 12:35:18
And we had quite a few groups work together to say, this is this is not where we need to go as a city.

[Mariah Samji] 12:35:24
This is not meet our needs. You are getting a great investment, and we need to open up opportunities to live close to the desirable areas.

[Mariah Samji] 12:35:33
Amenities close to transit options, and we took a step back.

[Mariah Samji] 12:35:40
Council and administration. It said, we need to look at this from a holistic approach, so in our upcoming budget, which is being released next week, there’s an unfunded service package to have the citywide strategy conversation around heritage and it’s something that our organization is very supportive.

[Mariah Samji] 12:35:58
Of it’s our top 3 things that we hope get get funded this year.

[Mariah Samji] 12:36:02
So. I wish I had the solutions yet. But myself and our organization are not the ones to come up with that solution.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:36:08
Yeah, no, no, yeah, yeah, I mean, it’s a dilemma. Right?

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:36:13
Because the her I mean. I spoke on Saturday to the National Trust Conference, and you know there are people in that community that use heritage as a basically an instrument of Nimble and and how?

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:36:23
Do we actually square that? With what local communities want? So maps, when you’ve been doing it, I mean, you’re dealing with very culturally specific context with it, with a community that’s quite organized, whereas in other parts of the country maybe, the community the vulnerable populations or the particular communities.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:36:44
that we would be identifying who have been exempted from the process. Media aren’t don’t have as much capacity, you know, and need to be more supported to build the capacity how have you squared that because Hrms booming right?

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:36:56
Other parts of Nova Scotia, too.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:36:58
yeah, so what we’ve heard from communities isn’t that they don’t want development.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:37:03
They want development. That’s that that meets their needs and their priorities and their interests.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:37:08
So they want development. That’s more representative of them.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:37:11
Development that they can see themselves in. And that’s that’s been the issue that too often.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:37:13

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:37:17
I think it’s very easy for us to say. Oh, you know, if we do this very intense of robust engagement, we’re just gonna run into the usual arguments around.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:37:26
Oh, but our culture, our heritage, our you know all of these, these kind of less tangible arguments that don’t show up in the spreadsheets that you really can’t put in them that that become you know quote unquote obstacles for folks who want, to charge

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:37:38
ahead, it, it becomes very difficult for us to try to try to quantify those things, but the community at the end of the day is not saying.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:37:45
They do not want development, they they want development. If, of course they do.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:37:50
But they want the same access to services to amenities, to housing that are.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:37:53

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:37:55
The folks are getting in their communities. So, unfortunately, the issue we’re running into right now is that while some communities like Beachfield, the Beachual Community Development Association have a lot of capacity to be engaging in these conversations to you know, to be working with Us.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:38:09
On a regular basis, and and starting to craft a community plan that we can help bring to life and in advance other communities on in that place.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:38:18
Yet, and unfortunately for them, you know the wheels keep turning that kind of thing, and we we simply cannot keep up with the pace of development, especially now and it’s it’s one of those unfortunate things, that in real.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:38:22

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:38:32
Time people are witnessing their communities disappear in front of their very eyes.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:38:36
And so what we’ve been trying to do is we look at our very limited policy toolkit, and we try to find creative ways to maybe not delay.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:38:47
Necessarily the process, but to to find ways to insert more of the community’s voice and presence in the community, to find a way that give them a greater, presence, a greatest say, in things, and that hasn’t been easy our policy, environment is quite constrained unlike folks in ontario we

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:39:05
don’t have. You know, the access to things like community benefits, agreements, and that type of thing.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:39:10
And we’re only now coming into the conversations around community Land trust.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:39:15
So these, these protective measures, tools and mechanisms, where community can hold off development and preserve and protect some of their land and their culture and their heritage.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:39:24
We’re only starting to navigate these conversations and and and that’s the the real, heartbreaking thing about it is that development doesn’t wait.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:39:32
The market is not waiting for folks to catch up. They’re not waiting for us to level the playing field, but we do have some communities who have the agency who have the the the extra expertise they’ve been doing planning for generations it just hasn’t been called that or recognized by that as that because you

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:39:34

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:39:47
Oh, that? Yeah.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:39:49
know from our eurocentric standpoint we see ourselves as the experts.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:39:53
We go out into the community to fix, to remedy.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:39:57
And now we’re starting to come to a point where we’re seeing that.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:39:59
Hey! Look! There’s leadership in these communities. We have resources which we should be lending out to community.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:40:06
We should be giving out to community rather rather than the the traditional transactional relationships we’ve had where we we take take, take you know, we we we consult, we consultant, to death we extract we extract, and then we do very little in the way.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:40:15
Extract, extract, extract.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:40:20
Of actually producing something that that represents them. And is responsive to them.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:40:25
Now we’re saying, Listen! The onus is on us to expend some of the resources the public resources, and say the communities. Hey, listen!

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:40:32
We have funds that can help you support, build more community facilitators, community navigators start to have these conversations bring you in to speak to planners, to build your capacities around understanding, planning, policy navigating the bureaucratic process as it is and in that way we’re

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:40:46

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:40:47
crippling folks to start to have a more, to be more engaged with the planning process, which is something that hasn’t happened in the past.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:40:56
So now, when we have folks we can call upon to say, listen.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:41:00
This new development is is being proposed. We’re hearing rumblings in the pipelines.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:41:04
Is the community aware about that? And then they’re able to organize themselves and have a better chance, you know.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:41:11
Unfortunately, that’s that’s where we’re at.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:41:11
Well, I’m I yeah. I want to go to Nama because you know, Nama, you’re in the profession, and you straddle a bunch of of experts, and this is notoriously been a problem where experts the experts and don’t actually engage as well but I know that there are

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:41:27
many many, many who are taking exactly the approach that maps. This suggesting. So can you talk to us a little bit about how you see we bridge this.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:41:34
So the communities actually are equipped and have the capacity and the skills and the and the allieship that hopefully designers, architect serving designers and planners could provide them

[Naama Blonder] 12:41:44

[Naama Blonder] 12:41:45
Right? Exactly. I. So there are a few things. First of all, you know, when I yeah took the I didn’t study urban planning in Canada.

[Naama Blonder] 12:41:51
So when I took the exams I I I learned about something that I really liked is that open planners are also here to speak on behalf of the future.

[Naama Blonder] 12:41:58
As residents, and not just the local community. And this is something that you know their voice is not hurt also future generations.

[Naama Blonder] 12:42:06
So, because their voice obviously cannot make their their voice heard so when you talk about Diversity, it’s really important to include those voices that are not cannot make their voice heard and the other thought.

[Naama Blonder] 12:42:19
About you know, when I heard the map, and Maria is, you know it’s when when you, tell when we talk about development.

[Naama Blonder] 12:42:28
We all also oftentimes hear the the very loud.

[Naama Blonder] 12:42:31
No, because what I and I recently came to that conclusion that when it’s like, you know, someone is pro housing.

[Naama Blonder] 12:42:40
Let’s say it. It will be city wide. So I volunteer with a yes in my backyard kind of organization.

[Naama Blonder] 12:42:45
But we’re not going to specific development unless it’s like for deeply affordable housing.

[Naama Blonder] 12:42:50
And then we do. But you know the general project that we think that are appropriate to the CD.

[Naama Blonder] 12:42:56
And you know, go and make our voice as a yes, in in the backyard, because pro housing are very much citywide, and they know are very specific each development.

[Naama Blonder] 12:43:06
So they the city oftentimes. Here is the unbalanced voices, and that is another challenge.

[Naama Blonder] 12:43:13
I would like to add, and you know the the topic of this webinar is about diversity diversity in in housing policy.

[Naama Blonder] 12:43:21
So? How do you make sure that you know, looping back to community engagement and future future residents?

[Naama Blonder] 12:43:29
How do you actually make sure that the new project will be inclusive, and not just for a narrow segment of the population?

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:43:47
Yeah, I mean, this is part of the transition, I think. We’re in.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:43:50
I mean, we’re all going to remember this moment, late 2,022, when suddenly everybody understood that we needed more resources in it to be distributed in a bunch of different ways and the for towards housing, and the question is going to be as you just suggested can we make sure that the policies are

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:44:08
sustainable, equitable. Don’t get us in unintended consequences, which is quite possible, as you look forward in terms of your own jurisdictions in Alberta Mariah.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:44:22
Do you see that this is something where the province needs to be more engaged?

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:44:27
Do you want the Federal Government to take more leadership do you?

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:44:29
I’m sure you’re gonna say all of it.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:44:31
But but where do you think the key levers are that we should all be focusing on to get it at?

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:44:36
What all of you are getting at, which is community-based community driven solutions and housing typologies that work for the communities. And somehow, also, as you just suggested, nomma somehow are inclusive of the future it’s tricky

[Mariah Samji] 12:44:50
so as everyone may or may not know, Edmonton is a bit of an island in Alberta.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:44:58
You’re not the only you’re not the only island.

[Mariah Samji] 12:44:59

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:45:01
I think almost I think I’m just thinking looking at us here.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:45:04
I think pretty much all the urban regions in the country.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:45:08
Interestingly, our islands in their problems. Yeah, that’s what we’re talking about.

[Mariah Samji] 12:45:12
Yeah, so I would say, we have a pretty good relationship with the Feds and a pretty advertisational adversarial relationship with the province.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:45:22
I haven’t seen.

[Mariah Samji] 12:45:23
Our our values often don’t align and we often don’t have good representation.

[Mariah Samji] 12:45:29
But what Edmonton has done, in spite of that is last year our zoning bylaw team at the city of Edmonton created a Gba plus an equity toolkit so a gender-based analysis plus an equity toolkit to review all policy

[Mariah Samji] 12:45:44
changes going forward, and that toolkit was created by a group that voices normally weren’t heard.

[Mariah Samji] 12:45:52
They were targeted in depth. Conversations with 24 marginalized community members around what the current barriers are, and a lot of it came down to how we communicate when we communicate what what level we communicate them, at i’ll communicate to them, at and making

[Mariah Samji] 12:46:11
sure that they’re empowered and brought in at the right times.

[Mariah Samji] 12:46:15
I think at planning can often be trying to engage everyone all the time.

[Mariah Samji] 12:46:21
And it it’s not appropriate cause, then it makes people feel like every time that they’re engaged.

[Mariah Samji] 12:46:26
Their voices are heard, and at different stages. Your voices are more impactful, and so we needed to be really clear about that, and we needed to use more plain language.

[Mariah Samji] 12:46:37
Oh, we’re we’re terrible about using jargon and and acronyms, and we’re so excited about what our cities R and can be.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:46:39

[Mariah Samji] 12:46:47
But we often use exclusionary language, an exclusionary tactics that amplify those who are loudest in the room that have the most resources.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:46:54

[Mariah Samji] 12:46:56
And so this toolkit has really taken a step back, and it also has all the planners do their own research.

[Mariah Samji] 12:47:05
So, look at the questions that they’re trying to answer and pull in data and information from other parts of the world to say, what am I actually looking at?

[Mariah Samji] 12:47:13
What am I actually looking to achieve? And how can I challenge myself?

[Mariah Samji] 12:47:18
And so I’m really proud of that work. I think it’ll change the way we’re we’re redeveloping Edmonton, and it’s allowed us in 2,013.

[Mariah Samji] 12:47:28
We add infill targets of 25% as a city, and that was set as a really lofty goal.

[Mariah Samji] 12:47:35
A lot of people thought it was not a achievable, and within 8 years we achieved it, and in late 2020, we approved our next municipal development.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:47:39

[Mariah Samji] 12:47:46
Plan that our new target is 50% in bill, and it’s more targeted around the middle.

[Mariah Samji] 12:47:53
And how we achieve those goals. A lot of the barriers that exist today in Edinburgh is our infrastructure, and that’s a really hard conversation to have with people who are working in our city making it liveable fun.

[Mariah Samji] 12:48:09
Going to work, attending to their families. Their personal health needs, because infrastructure is like as fun.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:48:20
Yeah, yeah, no, I know it’s kinda whole hum for most people.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:48:24
And yet, you know, they’re completely affected by it, as you just suggested.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:48:27
So again, you know, as we’re we’re focusing on in December.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:48:30
Believe or not, we’re gonna hit the 1,000 day mark of Covid since the World Health Organization, declared Covid, and an international emergency. A 1,000 days, and we’re trying to focus people on okay we’ve had a 1,000 days of this extraordinary moment where we get to really look carefully at

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:48:44
what’s working, and what’s not, and what do we need to move?

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:48:47
Advance on going forward, and it seems to me that this notion of complete neighborhoods that you need housing and services and public round and commercial life all in some proximity that you can get access to it this is an interesting question for us I think as urbanists can we push on that and say

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:49:07
we’re never going to create towers with no supports or single family residences, with no supports.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:49:16
We’re not gonna allow that kind of thing to happen.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:49:17
I’m curious, all 3 of you. If I could ask you this, what do you think the potential is to create the conditions for more housing options to be created, owned and operated by communities that have been traditionally exempted from this is that a solution work her own community owned more not for

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:49:41
profit, more capacity, so that they can become their own developers.

[Naama Blonder] 12:49:46
Mick, yeah, I just have to. I have to relate to or comment on what you said before your question, and then we answer your question absolutely.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:49:47
Anybody with that Noma. Go.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:49:53

[Naama Blonder] 12:49:56
And I think, the answer you know, ask our company is called Smart density, because we believe in that complete communities.

[Naama Blonder] 12:50:01
I’m not trying to advertise our company, but sometimes we walk around to the suburbs, and we say to ourselves, like, there’s a Joe like Ha!

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:50:02

[Naama Blonder] 12:50:08
This is dumb density, because what we see is those, you know, tall building, with nothing that is, you know.

[Naama Blonder] 12:50:13
I’ll say it. E. It’s it’s it’s bad, it’s not.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:50:13
Nothing around it.

[Naama Blonder] 12:50:17
I’m not even going to find soft words to to describe it.

[Naama Blonder] 12:50:21
Okay, this is what you know causes that is the stigma that we have that we are suffering from in, you know, in the housing industry to say, you know news news alert how’s with the backyard is not the only thing we can live in okay, and that, and those you know

[Naama Blonder] 12:50:39
dumb density areas where we just you see those projects that are the opposite of complete communities, neighborhoods.

[Naama Blonder] 12:50:47
15 min, ever so. The answer to that is really to unlock the the desirable neighborhoods that we already have that have transit, have amenities, have we tell you can walk everywhere but guess what who gets to enjoy it.

[Naama Blonder] 12:51:01
The very few that live in a single family in those single family houses.

[Naama Blonder] 12:51:07
So it they. The question is, you know, building inwards and growing inwards, not necessarily hypertle, but inwards and utilizing lens, and that is already built because the less sustainable option is to you know keep building and keep building and using more, and more land, because it will be very expensive.

[Naama Blonder] 12:51:28
and unrealistic to expect that those services that retail could thrive in those you know, new areas out of nowhere.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:51:38
You’re gonna swim upstream for sure, right because the building community green fields are always easier.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:51:44
Anyway. Go ahead, maps. What we’re gonna Say.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:51:46
yes, I I love what number just said there about unlocking diverse housing options, and I think it it speaks perfectly to to what I wanted to get into, which is an idea that is currently being researched that I propose it came up, in a conversation.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:52:02
So part of our engagement, as I mentioned, was starting to move more towards the direction direction of being more Afro-centric in a storytelling conversation.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:52:10
We were talking about how modern land use requirements often limit the number of dwellings per lot, so that practice I don’t know if many of you know has its roots in a colonial approach to property ownership which emphasizes individual property rights rather than kind of the communal

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:52:27
multi-generational living scenarios. So, while discussing these very restrictive subdivision control policies, my my my colleague, Caroline Wright, she mentioned how you know historically before planning policy, you know I think before the seventies became what it is now, there was this

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:52:46
very communal living arrangements. What you know almost resembled homestead, so to speak, and something clicked in me, and I said, Listen!

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:52:53
This sounds very familiar. She kept describing this setup where multiple families would live on one lot and have how multiple houses in that area, and it allowed families to stay in the same area etc., etc., and I said this is a very similar setup to what we have back home in

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:53:08
Zimbabwe, and we call these, you know, homesteads.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:53:11
Your ancestral homestead. Or your traditional homestead.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:53:11

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:53:13
And I said to my, You know my planning colleagues, I said, is there any way we can look into this to create some sort of an African of Nova, Scotian homestead?

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:53:23
Approach or lens to it. And so you know, with the conversation continued, and we kept seeing that in its current state, planning policy and practice would only more and more privilege.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:53:34
The built environment and economic growth at the expense of, you know the quality of life, the social, the cultural values of the community.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:53:42
So to address this yeah, Afrocentric lens is kind of where, I what I was pushing at and through reading, and more and more of the storytelling we started to understand that traditionally, you know, black communities in in Nova scotia quite a few of them were akin

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:53:59
to those very traditional African villages that I mentioned in their family, set up these nucleated, clustered homes typically occupied by single and extended families.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:54:09
It was traditional practice to build in multiple homes around, dispersing outwards, building outwards.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:54:15
And this would happen over time, as people would bequeath small parcels of land to children, grandchildren, great grandchildren, etc.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:54:21
And this was in often a direct line of descent as a ride of passage.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:54:26
In many ways, and the land was passed on that way in perpetuity, and the practice inures today in some ways.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:54:34
But it’s now become quite restricted, because what we’ve seen is a lot of these families.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:54:38
Have these massive tracts of land, these big big parcels, but they’re undevelopable because of some of the sub subdivision control policies. Exactly.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:54:43
Right? Or some constraint, or some yeah, yeah, Hmm.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:54:47
So it’s very restrictive. So now we’re saying to ourselves, so what must happen once they sell the land, you know, when a homestead is what retains the history of the ancestors, it allows local histories, and identities and family names?

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:54:59
To live on. So my suggestion for you know, researching this this approach, and looking into it, further would be to potentially unlock a and a policy approach which would enable 2 or more buildings on one lot, which would support African Nova Scotian communities to prevent further loss of their ancestral

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:55:19
lands to reinforce that cultural, and I integrity and identity to allow them to access the full value of their land via economic development, to build that generational wealth, to to, allow them to become active agents and beneficiaries of development, to reinforce the social support systems that come with those

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:55:36
in arrangements to reinforce and sustain that shared sense of identity, and to maintain that spiritual connection with the land.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:55:44
We often forget that that there’s a spiritual connection, a spiritual connection, and I an identity connection to land.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:55:50
So afrocentricity offers that practical way which we can validate.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:55:53
Those experiences through culturally relevant policy that speaks to the African Nova Scotian reality, past and present.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:56:02
So right now, our folks are planning is still kind of looking into that.

[Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga] 12:56:05
How it would work, what it would look like but it’s been well received by the community as an idea to say, Listen!

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:56:15
The the chat is never disappointing. At city city talk, and there there are many people here who seem to have multiple pathways in their brain more than me, and they’re carrying on with all sorts.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:56:25
Of good links and conversations, and I appreciate the activity that’s there, and, as I said, we’ll post it.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:56:30
The notion of afrocentricity being reflected in how houseing would develop in those parts.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:56:36
I of Nova Scotia. We’re seeing this in terms of indigenous housing practice in a certain particular Western cities, and there’s a development I know, in Ontario as well, and I’m wondering about if Mariah and Noma want to comment now I want to comment

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:56:52
on this about the possibility for culturally specific projects, initiatives, developments that could actually be owned and off could be designed, owned and operated by those communities you in Edmonton riot half of your homeless population is indigenous it’s a crisis for

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:57:10
indigenous folks in what’s your perspective on that?

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:57:14
In terms of how that community could be more engaged, but also have more of a sense, more actual ownership of their solution.

[Mariah Samji] 12:57:21
yeah. So when I mentioned, we have a almost a couple of great examples of ownership of spaces for our indigenous communities, there’s one in particular I can think of Ambrose place that not only has space for people to live but has space.

[Mariah Samji] 12:57:39
For cultural events and and I believe a kitchen space 2 to help meet their needs.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:57:40

[Mariah Samji] 12:57:45
It is is really beautiful, and where I’ve heard from that community as well as from other communities, is a big barrier to to own their own space as a community is the understanding of the process the cost of the infrastructure and the understanding of when those those costs come in and how to

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:58:01
Yeah, yeah.

[Mariah Samji] 12:58:06
access that capital. And so what we’re trying to do is to a reduce those those costs, but also share that timeline with people.

[Mariah Samji] 12:58:16
So that when they feel like they’re ready, or when whenever they’re, it’s their choice.

[Mariah Samji] 12:58:25
That they have the information that they need to take on that journey and take on that process

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:58:29
Yeah, I mean, do you think it’s a crazy idea?

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:58:32
If you. If we’re we all we hear it all the time.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:58:35
Public land sh at, owned by government, at Crown Corps, provinces.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:58:40
The Federal Government should be prioritized for housing development.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:58:42
We hear it all the time. Suppose that had some conditionality attached to it, which meant that that the code developer would engage with the local community, whether it’s indigenous or afro-centric or whatever the is that in the realm, of possibility no nama, would that work

[Naama Blonder] 12:59:00
I’m just thinking about. You know what you’re saying.

[Naama Blonder] 12:59:04
It. It has several complexities from. I’m a very hyper practical person.

[Naama Blonder] 12:59:09
Okay, and and I’m thinking about it. And first of all, there’s so many, you know, challenges before we are building.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:59:09
Sure. That’s good. Good

[Naama Blonder] 12:59:18
For you know, a specific community and community building is not about necessarily living in a single structure.

[Naama Blonder] 12:59:25
What happens in the public room. So you know, in community, I always say community is being developed when you know, you see the same person again, and again, and at the third time, you’re gonna ask them something about you know their whatever dog, kid whatever so this is.

[Naama Blonder] 12:59:40
How community is being created. And I think emphasizing on putting a lot of really good design in the public realm.

[Naama Blonder] 12:59:50
And this is the top that you don’t hear in community engagement audio.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 12:59:53

[Naama Blonder] 12:59:55
Here is height, or even just about the development. But when in, we were surprised how many developers are actually want to, and are so open minded and creative and you want to hear those those things and I always tell to you know to my to the to the people, that I work, with as the architect okay, i’m

[Naama Blonder] 13:00:13
not a developer. Make sure that your energy, you’re focusing your energy on the things that could actually matter to you.

[Naama Blonder] 13:00:20
Because as if it’s going to be, you know, 2, or or I don’t know 2, or 3, stories additional, 2 or 3 stories. It’s it’s not gonna make it or break it.

[Naama Blonder] 13:00:30
For You You’re not even able to say how to all that building is, but the public realm, the community, benefits the community centers that you’re gonna get, You know, maybe community oriented units such as affordable housing or specific targets, these will matter but you don’t hear

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 13:00:34

[Naama Blonder] 13:00:49
that why you don’t hear that? Because going back to everything that were the fascinating discussion that we are having in the chat, because we’re not even reaching that that discussion, I I I never had that so I if if I may say one thing, is that you know make sure that you’re commenting on the things that

[Naama Blonder] 13:01:07
will actually that that you’re commenting on the things that could that you could affect.

[Naama Blonder] 13:01:12
So, for example, if this is a a a midride site or a turb building site, will guess what it’s not going to be built as 4 stories, and the other thing, is that the grounds were in the public realm, does it an endless amount of input that you can as community member that you can bring and

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 13:01:20

[Naama Blonder] 13:01:32
that will actually affect you as current resident, and especially as as future residents.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 13:01:41
Or you have an impact, you know we could. I listen. I wish I could have another an hour and a half with you.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 13:01:46
3 like this is we’re just on the tip of the iceberg, and, as you can see, we’ve had hundreds listening.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 13:01:49
So as I always say it with a city talk. This isn’t the end.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 13:01:53
It’s just the beginning of a conversation. But thank you so much for raising all the important things you did that just start to provoke people thinking about data engagement testing trying stuff, at what are the tools lots of tools have been you guys put some tools, in the power of storytelling my God maps, what story

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 13:02:11
you’re telling I know people are. Gonna Talk about it the whole afternoon.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 13:02:14
So this is just really valuable ways that we’re supporting the connected tissue of urban life in Canada.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 13:02:20
And you know there is a lot of momentum now around creating housing.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 13:02:24
Let’s make sure it’s the housing that we want the housing that our communities need, and that it really speaks to the the fabric and the cultural reality on the ground in these in these communities.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 13:02:35
So thanks everybody really great to have you Mariah. Great to see you now.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 13:02:38
I’m a thanks for joining us, and maps great to see you.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 13:02:40
We’ll look forward to the Halifax report and I hope you have a great rest of the day and continue to think about how we introduce housing.

[Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC] 13:02:47
We insist more housing at more diversity and housing policy.


Full Audience
Chatroom Transcript

Note to reader: Chat comments have been edited for ease of readability. The text has not been edited for spelling or grammar. For questions or concerns, please contact with “Chat Comments” in the subject lin

From Canadian Urban Institute: You can find transcripts and recordings of today’s and all our webinars at

11:55:39 From Nick Hanson : Welcome to today’s CityTalk — “How Do We Bring More Diversity to Housing Policy?”
11:58:51 From Nick Hanson, CUI : Today’s CityTalk features the following panellists:
• Naama Blonder — Architect and Urban Planner, Smart Density, Toronto
• Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga — Diversity and Inclusion Advisor, Halifax Regional Municipality
• Mariah Samji — Executive Director, Infill Development in Edmonton Association (IDEA)
12:01:39 From Abby S (she/her) : Hello from Tkaranto.
12:02:25 From Nick Hanson, CUI : We invite you to introduce yourself (and where you are located) in the chat.
12:02:36 From Carolyn Whitzman : Hello from unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishnawbe people, colonially known as Ottawa.
12:02:54 From Nick Hanson, CUI : When posting in the chat, make sure the blue button says “Everyone.” (If it doesn’t, you can click the little triangle and change the setting).
12:03:03 From Kellie Grant : Kellie – City of Saskatoon Heritage Planner
12:03:07 From Don Curry : Hello from Hamilton
12:03:08 From Mikaila Montgomery : Good morning from Songhees and Esquimalt territory
12:03:09 From Jamy-Ellen KLENAVIC : Hi all – tuning in from cloudy Halifax!
12:03:09 From Nik Kinzel-Cadrin : Hello from Saskatoon, and Treaty 6 territory
12:03:13 From Kary Fell : Hello from Kelowna BC
12:03:18 From Tammy Henry to Hosts and panelists : Hi from Calgary
12:03:18 From Kevin Johnson : Kelowna!
12:03:22 From Fariha Husain : Fariha Husain from Toronto with CreateTO
12:03:22 From Ranon Soans : Hello from Edmonton!
12:03:27 From Nathan Rogers : Good day from Halifax
12:03:27 From Harrison Sheremeta : Hi from Edmonton!
12:03:27 From Holly Adams : Hello everyone-Halifax NS
12:03:28 From Courtney Lockhart : Hi everyone, I’m Courtney from the Co-op Housing Federation of Canada. Calling in from Ottawa
12:03:32 From Blaire Prima : Hello from Saskatoon!
12:03:34 From Holden Blue : Good Morning from West Kelowna BC!
12:03:34 From Mark Hafen : Hello from Scarborough
12:03:35 From Johannes Bendle : Hello from Victoria
12:03:38 From Scott Erdman : Good morning from Vancouver!
12:03:41 From teresa tang : Hello from Edmonton!
12:03:42 From Leah Cogan : Coming in from the Alliance to End Homelessness Ottawa.
12:03:43 From Aline Rahbany : Hi from Toronto!
12:03:46 From Judith Norris : Hello from Tkaranto.
12:03:46 From Kholisile Dhliwayo to Hosts and panelists : Kholisile Dhliwayo, from Massachusett land.
12:03:47 From Rachel Lee : Hello from Edmonton!
12:03:48 From Sara Pour to Hosts and panelists : Sara Alinaghi Pour, Calgary
12:03:50 From Gillian Mason : Glad to be here from Scarborough, ~ 25% pop’n and land mass of Scarborough and many folks facing housing challenges.
12:03:54 From Kathryn Weicker : Good Morning from Kamloops!!
12:03:58 From Janet Gutsell : Hello from Lethbridge, land of the Blackfoot people and Metis Nation of Alberta Region III.
12:04:03 From Nicola Alexander : Hello from Timmins, Northern Ontario
12:04:12 From ANDREA BETTY : Hello from Penetanguishene, Ontario!
12:04:16 From Lester Brown : Hello from Toronto.
12:04:19 From Kae Elgie : Kae Elgie, from the traditional territory of the Haudenosaunee, Anishnaabe and Neutral Peoples., now known as Waterloo Region
12:04:19 From Meghan Doucette : Hello from Bridgewater, Nova Scotia, land of the Mi’kmaq.
12:04:21 From Nick Hanson, CUI : Expanding Housing Options in Neighbourhoods is a City of Toronto initiative to facilitate more low-rise housing in residential neighbourhoods to meet the needs of our growing city.
12:04:27 From Niki Van Vugt : Hello everyone from Kingston, Ontario!
12:04:41 From Emma Bell-Scollan : Hello, also joining from Toronto
12:04:43 From Nick Hanson, CUI : Welcome to Leandro Santos,
Research Planner, Applied Solutions
Canadian Urban Institute
12:04:45 From Nick Hanson, CUI : Leandro firmly believes that for cities to prosper, they must be created by everybody for everybody.
At CUI, Leandro has worked on a series of city-building projects related to post-COVID urban recovery, housing, and equitable engagement. As part of the CUI x Local initiative, Leandro has synthesized broad stakeholder and community feedback gathered from intensive engagements hosted throughout Windsor, Victoria, and Halifax. His work has contributed to the production of outcomes reports highlighting city-building lessons for the rest of Canada’s urban areas. As the lead for the Expanding Housing Options in Neighbourhoods (EHON) Roundtable, Leandro strives to meaningfully elevate the voices of equity-deserving groups marginalized by the urban planning process.
Leandro holds a Bachelor of Urban and Regional Planning from Toronto Metropolitan University and a Bachelor of Arts in Political Science with a concentration in International Relations from Carleton University.
12:04:55 From Maisha Barnett to Hosts and panelists : Greetings from Seattle!
12:04:56 From Jennifer Kirchner to Hosts and panelists : Hello from Saint John, New Brunswick!
12:04:58 From Stefan Hodges : Hello from Winnipeg on Treaty One territory and homeland of the Red River Metis Nation
12:05:04 From Pat Petrala : Greetings from WET windy White Rock BC Unceded lands of Semiahmoo First Nations and Coast Salish Nations. New census data most interesting ethno-cultural mix changes here. New City Council to bring on side – work cut out for us.
12:05:17 From Nick Hanson, CUI : Map of the Yellowbelt in Toronto:
12:05:24 From Sarah King : Good morning from Saskatoon! Treaty 6 Territory and Homeland of the Metis. – Sarah King (Housing Analyst)
12:05:28 From Kavin Sheikheldin She/Her : Good Morning! Im a housing advocate and from Calgary, AB
12:06:09 From Jim Charlebois : Good morning from Saskatoon – Jim Charlebois (Development Review, Corridors)
12:06:18 From Abby S (she/her) : Does allowing change of lot use include changing existing single family homes to allow for more rental units?
12:06:32 From Leonardo Gil : Hello from Windsor!
12:07:37 From Susan Lightfoot : was freezing for me as well
12:07:53 From Vivian Lo : Freezing & breaking for me as well.
12:07:58 From Jaleen Rousseau : if connection is unstable you can sometimes improve it by turning camera off
12:08:13 From Anne Landry : Anne Landry – Good Morning! – Housing is a Human Right, Human Rights advocate in Calgary – Treaty 7 and Metis Region 3.
12:08:17 From Mary W Rowe, she/her, CUI/IUC to Jaleen Rousseau and all panelists : yup will resort to that if we need to
12:08:18 From Abby S (she/her) : Freezing for me too. And the issue of student housing (international students). We need to couple the educational opportunity with safe affordable accommodation.
12:09:17 From Naama Blonder to Hosts and panelists : @Abby, no. Rooming Housing policy was deferred by Council last year and rental rules (no more than 3 bedrooms per unit) were not addressed but Rental Replacment policy is being reviewed by the province
12:09:43 From Kate, Canadian Urban Institute to Naama Blonder(Direct Message) : Hi Naama, your comment was directed to panellists, not the audience. Could you switch your settings to “everyone”
12:09:52 From Naama Blonder : @Abby, no. Rooming Housing policy was deferred by Council last year and rental rules (no more than 3 bedrooms per unit) were not addressed but Rental Replacment policy is being reviewed by the province
12:11:00 From Nick Hanson, CUI : We are recording today’s session (and chat) and will share it online at
12:11:29 From Gillian Mason : How is the City of Toronto (or other cities) ensuring that those who are most affected by the housing crisis, not least the homeless, are engaged throughout the conversation in Toronto?
12:11:32 From Abby S (she/her) : @Naama thank you
12:12:48 From Holly Adams : 👏
12:13:02 From Amel TA : 👏
12:13:08 From Kholisile Dhliwayo to Hosts and panelists : 🔥Maps
12:13:10 From Ranon Soans : Mariah is a champion of infill for Edmonton!!
12:13:11 From Nick Hanson, CUI : Welcome to Mariah Samji
Executive Director
Infill Development in Edmonton Association
12:13:13 From Nick Hanson, CUI : Mariah holds two degrees, one Bachelor of Education and an After Degree in Human Geography and Urban Planning. She is the Executive Director of the Infill Development in Edmonton Association (IDEA), a non-profit organization that provides advocacy, education and resources on infill development to the community, industry, utility providers and municipalities.
Mariah has a passion for vibrant, people-centred spaces, which keeps her motivated to advocate for change in Edmonton.
12:13:42 From Colton Kirsop : Mariah was great to work with in Edmonton, a role model is how IDEA and the City collaborated on reducing barriers to infill.
12:14:01 From Sarah Woodgate : Hello There, Sarah Woodgate here from Calgary/Mokinstis. This is an important topic today to have equitable cities. I am wondering if there is a defintion of missing middle… building form mid-rise vs housing supply for average income households-affordabliliy focus?
12:14:42 From Nick Hanson, CUI : Sarah Woodgate:
12:14:43 From Nick Hanson, CUI : In 2010, architect and urban designer Daniel Parolek coined the term “Missing Middle Housing” to describe house-scale buildings with multiple units in walkable neighborhoods:

“These building types, such as duplexes, fourplexes, cottage courts, and courtyard buildings, provide diverse housing options and support locally serving retail and public transportation options. We call them “Missing” because they have typically been illegal to build since the mid-1940s and “Middle” because they sit in the middle of a spectrum between detached single-family homes and mid-rise to high-rise apartment buildings, in terms of form and scale, as well as number of units and often, affordability.”
12:15:07 From Nathan Rogers : We need to adjust subdivision bylaw to allow smaller urban lots to allow tiny homes to exist on their own parcel
12:15:37 From Abby S (she/her) to Hosts and panelists : Wow
12:16:08 From Jaleen Rousseau : how does removal of parking minimums impact public roads, especially in a community that has lots of snow and snow clearing needs
12:16:33 From Kelsey Santarossa : Hi there! Kelsey from Lakeshore here (Just outside of Windsor) One of the struggles that we are going to experience with SDUs and ADUs for infill is the pressure on wastewater infrastructure (conveyance not treatment). Have you combatted similar experiences? How did you support improvements by and for developers to bring these units to fruition?
12:16:34 From Abby S (she/her) to Hosts and panelists : @NickHanson 👍👏
12:16:38 From Sarah Woodgate : Thanks. I think there is a misconception regarding affordability with this term.
12:16:38 From Carolyn Whitzman : Good idea, @nathan!
12:16:40 From Nathan Rogers : Is the Edmonton missing middle units located on same parcels as main use or are you subdividing lots
12:17:05 From Kae Elgie : How long has Edmonton allowed everything everywhere?
12:17:36 From Ushnish Sengupta : There was a significant role for cooperative housing in Canada, but has not been recently due to lack of govt support. I believe the word ‘nonprofit” was included a recent Ontario Government Housing announcement. Would like to see Cooperatives explicitly included and supported.
12:17:40 From Harrison Sheremeta : MIssing middle units are permitted on the same parcel as the main use (i.e. garden suites, garage suites, basement suites, etc.)
12:18:09 From David Chan : Good Morning-East Waterfront Community Association located at East Bayfront, Toronto.
12:18:40 From Harrison Sheremeta : Edmonton effectively eliminated ‘single family’ zoning from its Zoning Bylaw in 2019, which now allows semi-detached housing, secondary suites and other missing middle housing in all residential zones
12:19:39 From Julian West to Hosts and panelists : Mariah – I think most mid-size and large cities could use an IDEA in their community. How did you get started and how are you funded?
12:19:51 From Sarah Woodgate : It is so exciting to see what Edmonton is able to do!
12:20:01 From Nick Hanson, CUI : Welcome to Naama Blonder
Architect, Urban Designer, Urban Planner
Smart Density
12:20:02 From Nick Hanson, CUI : Naama Blonder is the co-founder of Smart Density. Her professional practice combines the disciplines of architecture, urban planning, and urban design to bring a deeper, more realistic understanding of how cities can address housing affordability and champion inclusive neighbourhoods with more equitable access to housing. Her work has received numerous awards including the prestigious Ontario Association of Architects’ Best Emerging Practice Award for 2022.
Blonder is a subject-matter expert for the City of Toronto “Expanding Housing Options in our Neighborhoods” committee, a board member of affordable housing provider Kehilla, has co-authored the Housing Affordability Report of the Ontario Association of Architects, and served at the Design Review Panel of the City of Burlington where she provided Urban Design advice for development applications.
12:20:22 From Carolyn Whitzman : @ushnish hahaha no. And the definition of affordability in ON bears no resemblance to ability to pay- it is based on market rents.
12:22:46 From Nathan Rogers : In terms of accessibility within residential units, like as lower counter heights with leg room for wheelchairs – we’ve heard about developers installing them and then tearing them out – what does this say?
12:23:21 From Cameron Charlebois : What happened to the avenue densification policy? I do see 12 storey buildings going up on Yonge and Avenue Roard, but not many of them and they tend to be TOO big…
12:23:29 From Abby S (she/her) : It’s true that the costs to develop anything but huge projects is prohibitive.
12:24:16 From Abby S (she/her) : Also agree affordability needs to be defined in a different way. Not against market rents but % of income.
12:24:45 From Nick Hanson, CUI : Welcome to Mapfumo Chidzonga
Diversity and Inclusion Advisor
Government of Nova Scotia
12:24:55 From Judith Norris : I work in Toronto but live in Scarborough. There seem to be a lot of low rise buildings in Scarborough. There are also triplexes, high rises. But I notice they seem to be building mostly mid and high rises in Scarborough but condos now.
12:24:55 From Abby S (she/her) : The US has this in their Section 11 (I think) housing not that it works perfectly either.
12:26:29 From Kate, Canadian Urban Institute : Mapfumo Chidzonga is the new Senior Engagement Strategist for the Office of Equity and Anti-Racism Initiatives (OEA) with the Government of Nova Scotia. Previously, in his capacity as a Diversity and Inclusion Advisor for the Halifax Regional Municipality, he carved out a unique role as an embedded advisor working at the forefront of championing equity, diversity and inclusion as primary and core considerations in policymaking, city-building plans, service delivery and community engagement practices. He is passionate about building trust, equitable service, inclusive and meaningful relationships and centering the voices of underrepresented communities.
12:26:36 From Sarah Woodgate : I agree affordability should be .easjr
12:26:41 From Kate, Canadian Urban Institute : Mapfumo’s life journey started in Harare, Zimbabwe and so, his values are proudly rooted in the African worldview of Hunhu (Ubuntu) through which he was raised to embody and instill the qualities of integrity, compassion, community responsibility, empathy, respect for life and dignity of all persons. He describes himself as an aspiring change-maker committed to life-long learning. He holds a master’s degree in International Development Studies from Dalhousie University.
12:28:12 From Tafadzwa Clementine Maramura : What a journey Mapfumo 💪🏾
12:28:31 From Sarah Woodgate : I agree affordability should be measured against income bands vs cost of housing either rental or purchase price. Is this housing form increasing housing choice for households with limited choice or is it serving same populatio s
12:30:25 From Kae Elgie : So Maps, how are you ensuring there will be Quality not just quantity of new housing? Very important
12:31:01 From Stanley Lee : well, I suppose development firms are skilled at creating replacement communities?
12:31:30 From Mark Hafen to Hosts and panelists : Just increasing the housing inventory may not help those who are of limited income. Affordable housing options need to be purpose-built. That requires some partnerships with developers, non-profits, and government agencies.
12:31:40 From Sarah Woodgate : Yes! Who is the housing serving?? Housing is for people. Very important community voice and culture reflected in the housing. Very imporant study! great info!
12:31:40 From Tammy Henry to Hosts and panelists : Big problem we face is the “social and cultural” aspect being used by existing residents for exclusion.
12:31:43 From Vivian Lo : I agree with housing for seniors. There are seniors who can live independently and build a community of their own. Do we have any examples in Toronto?
12:32:12 From Nick Hanson, CUI : Do you have specific questions for the panellists? Post them in the chat, and we’ll try to answer as many as possible.
12:32:46 From Diana Gibson : Thanks for this Mapfumo, our data shows that discrimination continues to be a key driver of housing insecurity and homelessness in our region, local processes around this are critical
12:33:13 From Nick Hanson, CUI : African Nova Scotian:
12:33:24 From Julian West to Hosts and panelists : For Mariah – I think most mid-size and large cities could use an IDEA in their community. How did you get started and how are you funded?
12:33:42 From Jim Gendron to Hosts and panelists : Mariah. Can you tell us about the engaged Board of IDEA Directors have contributed to success in changing and advancing the housing policy that has enabled infill in mature neighbourhoods in Edmonton?
12:33:48 From Lester Brown : Many communities in our area (St. Lawrence/The Distillery) have developed aging in place committees. In some co-ops the community is getting quite older and the number of seniors is phenomenal.
12:34:02 From Carolyn Whitzman : The More Homes Built Faster Act gets rid of tenant protection from demo-viction.
12:34:04 From Kholisile Dhliwayo to Hosts and panelists : Keen to hear more about the initiatives Maps. This is a big issue across racialized communities though out North America.
12:34:10 From Amel TA :
12:34:13 From Ushnish Sengupta : Anyone following the use of PropTech by landlords to evaluate tenants and the potential for Digital Redlining and other forms of technology based discrimination.
12:34:39 From Kae Elgie : And let’s not forget environmental concerns: if these new houses aren’t well built they will cost more to heat and cool — and repair!
12:34:53 From Lester Brown : Aging in place, however requires a vast array of services. Ontario is quite short on home service.
12:35:00 From Nick Hanson, CUI : Here are details about the (just announced) government legislation in Ontario: More Homes Built Faster Act, 2022:
12:35:08 From Naama Blonder : *About affordable housing for seniors*: we are hosting a webinar on Tuesday presenting a a case study from Brooklyn with the architects (from New York):
12:35:49 From Nick Hanson, CUI : The City of Edmonton compiled a set of innovative policies and case studies that enable and encourage medium- and high-scale infill development.
12:37:00 From Kholisile Dhliwayo to Hosts and panelists : heritage means different things to different people, racialized communities are not usually at the table in deciding this. Some of it isnt physical.
12:37:37 From Kholisile Dhliwayo to Hosts and panelists : How do we become more inclusive in our definition?
12:37:37 From Kate, Canadian Urban Institute to Kholisile Dhliwayo and all panelists : Great comment Kholisile! Could you please set your chat settings to “everyone” and repost it so that attendees can see?
12:37:37 From Geoff Kettel : In Edmonton you say that everything can be buill everywhere. So it is allowed but is it actually happening? In Toronto the pre WW2 neighbourhoods allow multiplexes and they were built over 50 years ago, but not now. In fact triplexes are converted to single family homes.
12:38:36 From Sarah Woodgate : This important work is very difficult to create change needed for inclusive communities. Homeowners tend to focus on financial interests and status quo. If you had a magic wand what three things could make this work easier?
12:39:07 From Kholisile Dhliwayo : Heritage means different things to different people, racialized communities are not usually part of the table in deciding this. Sometimes its not a physical built thing but rather appartus that allows certain socialization.
12:39:14 From Cameron Charlebois : How do you build a broader community/city-wide consensus to engage-frame the local community conversations on development.
12:39:36 From Kholisile Dhliwayo : How do we allow more agency for underseved communities
12:39:43 From Tammy Henry to Hosts and panelists : Our group in the City of Calgary recently developed a “missing middle” district and there was a lot of resistance to it. Some noted that they don’t want development, they only want singles or semis that are becoming hard to attain. Thankfully, council approved this new district that could be applied for as it did not redesignate/rezone anyone’s parcel.
12:39:46 From Nathan Rogers : We definitely have some heritage being used as instrument of NIMBYism
12:40:07 From Kholisile Dhliwayo : Yes Maps ! totally agree ! communities were doing this from time!
12:40:53 From Julian West to Hosts and panelists : Question – building on the community engagement topic, there are a lot of people who simply don’t want development – often comfortably housed single detached home owners. How do you separate authentic engagement to be culturally sensitive versus engagement with people who just don’t want their community to change.
12:41:03 From Kholisile Dhliwayo : Also those community leaders should be paid at teh same rate as consultants. Their experience of community and enagement is valuable, so is their time and expertise.
12:41:14 From Ushnish Sengupta : +1 to Community Benefit Agreements for accountability to communities, becoming even more essential as so many cities are vying to become Smart Cities.
12:41:46 From Stanley Lee : how likely are experts “bought off”?
12:41:51 From Gillian Mason : completely agree Kholosile: the community members are the experts in their communities.
12:41:58 From Kate, Canadian Urban Institute : Hi all! A reminder to set your chat settings to “Everyone” so that all attendees can read your comments.
12:43:20 From Ronny Yaron : My concern with new provincial legislation is that it seems to be all about increasing density and doesn’t provide funding to make housing deeply affordable and engage future residents.
12:44:28 From Mark Hafen : @Ronny Yes. Just increasing housing supply isn’t going to help those needing affordable options. Those have to be purpose-built, don’t you think?
12:44:31 From Julian West : Question – building on the community engagement topic, there are a lot of people who simply don’t want development next door – often comfortably housed single detached home owners. How do you separate authentic engagement so developments can be culturally sensitive versus engagement with people who just don’t want their community to change?
12:44:38 From Cameron Charlebois : What about Montreal’s 20-20-20 (Metropole mixte) by-law for affordability and family housing?
12:45:17 From Harrison Sheremeta : (except Calgary)
12:45:22 From Tammy Henry : In AB with the new cabinet, Housing as a ministry no longer exists
12:45:49 From Kae Elgie : @Julian, I think we need to have one-on-one difficult conversations, or maybe small groups. Jane’s Walks can help people imagine what change could look like in their neighbourhood
12:47:30 From Leandro Santos : Request the toolkit here (free):
12:47:35 From Kholisile Dhliwayo : Have you all heard of Te Aranga?
12:47:52 From Diana Gibson : @julian, Great question, it is really important to be intentional about inclusive engagement and accountable for what perspectives are being priviledged in processes.
12:48:25 From Naama Blonder : @Julian, I agree, that’s one of the biggest problems, that these owners have too much power to dictate others are not welcome to live in their street…
12:48:34 From Kholisile Dhliwayo : The principles of engaging communities as expeerts and them setting terms of engagement is important. Sometimes NIMBYs havea point. I think we have to ask for who and by who.
12:49:12 From Stanley Lee : but I thought most western governments are pretending there’s no more covid, no?
12:49:33 From Kholisile Dhliwayo : usually there are good reasons people are saying no. As professionals we are trained to ask what the no is about. Development? Density? Displacement? Cultural loss?
12:49:45 From Lester Brown : @Mark the New legislation will reduce funds available for infrastructure and affordable housing as it is reducing development charges.
12:49:56 From Julian West : @Kae – I’m a huge fan of deep, authentic engagement but I do a lot of it in my projects, but even with loads of engagement and 1:1 conversations, etc., a lot of people just don’t buy into densification, sustainable transportation alternatives, etc.
12:50:38 From Colton Kirsop : Great question Mary – yes – so much more non-profit home ownership by diverse ownership entities is so dearly needed.
12:51:54 From Kae Elgie : @Kholislie — such an important point. Listening respectfully and trying to understand other’s points is so important. And yes @Julian, some people won’t budge, but I think everyone appreciates feeling truly listened to.
12:52:43 From Nick Hanson, CUI : FYI: We are recording today’s session and will share it online at
12:52:51 From Tammy Henry : @Julian – we face the same challenges. We are trying alternatives to engage people that don’t usually participate in the planning process.
12:53:40 From Kholisile Dhliwayo :
12:53:41 From m m to Hosts and panelists : Great idea, thank you.
12:53:50 From Vivian Lo : Green fields always easier and cheaper to start with. However the cost for the maintenance is more expensive — then why the government still continues to approve such plans that is not sustainable?
12:53:58 From Kholisile Dhliwayo : so true please also check this out. Same issues in the US
12:54:19 From paul maclean to Hosts and panelists : Palmerston – Little Italy is over 50% rental & this is mostly or entirely ‘homes’ or houses – very walkable – would you describe this as a ‘complete community’? Population has been declining & median income has been increasing (ward is now $170,000 per household)
12:54:37 From Kholisile Dhliwayo : ownership structures are not set up that way
12:54:39 From Lester Brown : @Maps some Acadian areas have that form of community. My partners family live like that in Bathurst.
12:55:08 From Kholisile Dhliwayo :
12:55:09 From Pat Petrala : All of the links and ideas posted here would be useful – unable to copy & paste. Trying to listen and re-type web links
12:55:54 From Holly Adams : 🙌
12:56:06 From Ronny Yaron : The new legislation overrides NIMBYISM as I understand it…
12:56:09 From Amel TA : Kholisile, thank you for the links
12:56:17 From Nick Hanson, CUI : Pat P: thanks for the comment. When we post the video online, we’ll also post the chat (which should be copy and pastable)
12:57:15 From Julian West : I also think it’s important to have deep, rich, authentic consultation at the planning level – not once a new housing project pops up. Cities need to be proactive and get ahead of these issues and good engagement takes a lot of time and $$$ – we’ll never consistently get high quality engagement from developers if we’re doing it on a case by case basis
12:57:46 From Julian West : This is especially true when we’re talking about smaller developments, like missing middle
12:57:47 From Kae Elgie : totally agree @Julian.
12:59:14 From Cameron Charlebois : Check out Canada Lands triple-bottom line mandate.
12:59:21 From Stanley Lee : how much political economy do you need for the co-conditions to happen?
12:59:50 From Mariah Samji : check out our podcast episode one to hear about how IDEA started:
13:00:23 From m m to Hosts and panelists : How can you have affordable housing when cities tax at market value ! This has to be addressed taxation !
13:00:25 From Nick Hanson, CUI : CUI wants to hear from you! We’re asking 1000 Canadians 5 questions about what they’ve learned through the pandemic and what our priorities should be for the next 1000 days for an upcoming report.
Answer the 5 questions for better cities here:
13:00:28 From Abby S (she/her) : Ai love mama’s description of community building.
13:00:37 From Abby S (she/her) : *Naama
13:00:47 From Anne Landry : Prevent loss of existing affordable, adequate, accessible housing – including in “middle” level multi-family residential buildings – END predatory financialization of housing and land – HOUSING is a HUMAN RIGHT > see THE CRISIS ENDS WITH US by the Women’s National Housing and Homelessness Network and HOMELESS ON HOMELANDS by Keepers of the Circle – – HOUSING HUMAN RIGHTS Claims to the Federal Housing Advocate.
13:01:01 From Abby S (she/her) : (Damn autocorrect)
13:01:02 From Pat Petrala : Having Council members that RENT has been useful; Also seats for RENTERS & selection of appointments being sensitive to diversity on City Ho9using Advisory Committee
13:01:36 From Kevin Johnson : Cost to create housing is at an all time high. Construction cost, approval times, financing, labour cost, material costs, land cost, etc. Should this not be part of the discussion regarding housing diversity?
13:01:53 From Nick Hanson, CUI : Please join us in thanking today’s panellists:
• Naama Blonder — Architect and Urban Planner, Smart Density, Toronto
• Mapfumo “Maps” Chidzonga — Diversity and Inclusion Advisor, Halifax Regional Municipality
• Mariah Samji — Executive Director, Infill Development in Edmonton Association (IDEA)
13:02:10 From Mark Finch : Great talk…thanks everyone!
13:02:12 From Lester Brown : Thank you again. Another great discussion.
13:02:21 From Harrison Sheremeta : Thanks for the great discussion!
13:02:27 From Holden Blue : Thank you again for what is always a great conversation!
13:02:27 From Ben Larson to Hosts and panelists : Thanks. That was a great conversation!!
13:02:36 From Naama Blonder : Join me on Tuesday: (Two) New York Affordable Housing Case Studies: Senior and Infill Housing Projects:
13:02:37 From Diana Jeliazkova : Thank you for another great discussion!
13:02:39 From Surma Das : Thanks for the great discussion!
13:02:42 From Agi Kapllani : Amazing talk and ideas! Thanks everyone 😊
13:02:43 From Nick Hanson, CUI : CUI wants to hear from you! We’re asking 1000 Canadians 5 questions about what they’ve learned through the pandemic and what our priorities should be for the next 1000 days for an upcoming report.
Answer the 5 questions for better cities here:
13:02:50 From Abby S (she/her) : Thank you great city talk
13:02:51 From Kae Elgie : I’m so glad I can watch it again. Fab
13:02:52 From Ralph Cipolla : Thank you from orillia ontario
13:02:52 From m m to Hosts and panelists : Beautiful thank you its now or never!